Author Topic: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??  (Read 133359 times)

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Offline Grip

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2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« on: February 16, 2011, 09:31:49 AM »
Not many of the 2001"D" Pandas (gold or silver) show up at auction on Ebay. A silver 01"D" went out at 92.00 a few days ago. 

Offline canadian

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2011, 10:58:57 AM »
My understanding of the 01"D" is that it was produced for the domestic Chinese market. Mintage numbers I believe are about the same as the regular 01". Many of them have found their way to  North America. Personaly I think the D" is not as nice looking as the regular "01, the D" detracts from the otherwise beautiful design.

Offline Grip

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2011, 05:20:48 PM »
Yes, the 01 "D" was for domestic distribution only, so I have to guess that most of the population is in China. Wonder who has them.  Xu Hong never had many of them and always said they were "rare". Over the two years I was buying from him, he only had one 2000 1 oz gold Mirror panda and had it listed for 1850.00 (last year). He also said this was a rare coin. Turns out he was right. I noticed that one of the dealers (AU3000) has a set of 01 "D" gold pandas graded MS69 asking 14,000.00 stating "it's a tough set to acquire"....       

Offline canadian

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2011, 09:47:32 PM »
I have some silver 01 "D's" I often thought that given the opportunity I might trade them for non "D's" because I like the looks of them more. It seems that when American dealers have them, they only charge a small premium over the regular issue. Maybe they have been under valued?

Offline Grip

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 10:13:40 AM »
Only time will tell. The Chinese were not allowed to own gold or silver until 2005. I'm guessing that most of the population of coins minted for Domestic distribution have remained in China and are now owned by people who will likely not sell them for quite some time-if at all. Also, shipping coins (especially domestic production) out of country is illegal without meeting government regulations. Maybe that set of gold 01"D"s au3000 is selling will turn out to be a good deal...

Offline NBM

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 11:41:15 PM »
Does anyone have the skinny on the "small D" variety?

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-34387-2001d-small-d-variety.html


Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 12:12:30 AM »
With a "small D", it's fair there is a "large D"?  What is the difference?  Got comparsion pictures?

Offline heyimderrick

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 01:23:08 AM »
This just came up on another forum I participate on.

I've heard over and over that the 2001D is a sleeper. I haven't been watching prices recently, but when I was, the D variety was commanding a premium. Gold & Silver Panda Buyer's Guide has BU estimate for D variety at <33,000 compared to <155,000 for regular version.

For those collectors out there that need every variety, I think the hunt for Big D and Little D will push prices higher as the more rare variety reveals itself. There is a noticeable difference in size.

I don't have a photo to post, but there is one here: http://pandaxe.com/showthread.php?197-Another-variety-amp-*-2001-SMALL-D-MAKING-ME-CRAZY!

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 01:35:33 AM »
This is a new variety just showed up in this week's census.  The census I collected on 2001D last weekend does not have the "large D" and "small D" line items, but today there are two more lines showing 26 "large D" and 8 "small D". 

I went through several hundreds S10Y 2001D this evening, and I have yet to find a "small D", so I think it is quite rare.

I blow up the picture above and overlayed with a normal 2001D (large D).  The difference is very distinct.  Click on the picture to display the animated GIF.  Each variety will display for 2 seconds.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 02:41:44 AM »
Intriguing, but there are so many differences between the two in addition to just the size of the date
(  the "1" in 10 , the bamboo branches, the 999s, the mirror stripe behind the shoulder, etc)
and I am wondering if we aren't in fact seeing some new fakes perhaps getting past the graders?

I have seen some very questionable new "varieties" of silver pandas lately which have been graded by NGC, and I have shared them with top experts who have found them to be questionable at best, and at worst a new high level of fakes.
"He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

Confucius

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 03:22:29 AM »
Intriguing, but there are so many differences between the two in addition to just the size of the date
(  the "1" in 10 , the bamboo branches, the 999s, the mirror stripe behind the shoulder, etc)
and I am wondering if we aren't in fact seeing some new fakes perhaps getting past the graders?

I have seen some very questionable new "varieties" of silver pandas lately which have been graded by NGC, and I have shared them with top experts who have found them to be questionable at best, and at worst a new high level of fakes.

I concurred.  I'm surprised with so much discussion about fakes, yet no one mentioned the possibility that "small D" could be a fake.  The image of small-D wasn't very clear but it seems to be lacking sharp details as in the genuine "large-D".

Offline dynamike51

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 03:30:41 AM »
This is a new variety just showed up in this week's census.  The census I collected on 2001D last weekend does not have the "large D" and "small D" line items, but today there are two more lines showing 26 "large D" and 8 "small D". 

I went through several hundreds S10Y 2001D this evening, and I have yet to find a "small D", so I think it is quite rare.

I blow up the picture above and overlayed with a normal 2001D (large D).  The difference is very distinct.  Click on the picture to display the animated GIF.  Each variety will display for 2 seconds.

"census"? Mind I ask you which census were you referring to?

Offline pandamonium

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2012, 08:05:25 AM »
Peter is probably right at 33,000 mintage for the 2001 D.  Mr Ge says 250,000 mintage.  The 2000 and newer silver pandas have high mintage compared to 1980's and 90's silver pandas.  I still think there is a possiblity of undiscovered varieties w/ the older lower mintage silver pandas.  2001 D is a good panda to own but the older maybe a better bet.................

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 10:11:44 AM »
"census"? Mind I ask you which census were you referring to?
I should be more clear.  "census" is a NGC term for their "coin population report" which is updated weekly on Monday.  Due to the growing interests in variety and the resulting discoveries, the number of entries in a coin population report is increasing steadily of late.  The 2001D is likely to follow the pattern of previous discoveries where the original entry stayed the same or declining slowly due to resubmission, but the new entries (large "D" and small "D") will grow weekly.  The ratio of the large "D" to small "D" is an approximation of the relative scarcity.  I'm interested in this one because it is another case study in "rarity distortion".

My survey of the 2001D is done, out of the 886 2001D S10Y NGC photo examined, I can not find a single case of small "D".  In my opinion, there is some possibility of the small "D" being a fake, but I'm more inclined to think a collector has recognized the variety early on and accumulated a significant sample of them secretly and then submit them in one lot to NGC with sufficient sample size to establish their authenticity.  Time will tell, I shall monitor the 2001D population with considerable interest, there are a couple theories I want to check out.

In the mean time, I sure like to have a better picture of the small D.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 2001"D" Silver Panda-A Sleeper??
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 11:01:36 AM »
SANDAC,

Please post picture of so call "small date" 2001D or NGC cert. #. Thanks.

NGC had graded low quality fake 1987 Mazu gold coin as genuine recently. This can be another instant.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:07:10 AM by poconopenn »