Author Topic: Actual mintages  (Read 86369 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2010, 11:50:55 AM »
arf_arf has a China-printed book that provides different mintage numbers than anywhere else for some coins. He was kind enough to share part of it with me and it looked pretty credible.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

I saw the book for sale on ebay a few years back. I think it must be out of print, because I haven't seen it since. I believe that all the major dealers own a copy, but they guard it like a trade secret. I have not been able to get a copy for myself.

Offline pandamania

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Karma: 4
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2011, 09:36:10 AM »
Do actual government mintage figures by mint exist for the 1/2 and 1 ounce silver pandas? It seems logical that the mints would track their numbers as is done to the coin in the US.

If such figures exist why has the mint not released them? As with the gold BU mintages are they saving them for a special occasion?

Offline larrydreher

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 455
  • Karma: 7
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2011, 10:41:56 AM »
What is the title of the book?  I may have the same one.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2011, 07:14:39 PM »
I'm sure you do, it's the book by Mr. Ge.

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2011, 11:24:57 AM »
Apparently, MDM of Germany was the exclusive distributor for Outstanding Historic Figures sets. According to the following linked article (in Chinese), MDM had made request to China Mint for additional sets, most likely in 2002. Consequently, China Mint produced several thousand sets for MDM during 2003-2005. This may be the reason for a  relatively low price of those gold coins and so many being offered at Germany ebay.
 
http://www.jb008.cn/coin/article_view.asp?id=698

Do those restrikes affect only the gold, or were they made for the silver coins too? Are the restrikes distinguishable from the original coins? That was an extremely shady thing for the Chinese mint to do. They're basically counterfeiting their own coins when the price is right. I should call them up and tell them I want 5000 1995 1 oz gold proof pandas minted for me.

Speaking of that, many of the really good "fakes" without denominations are actually made at the mint under private contract - so I've heard. It wouldn't surprise me.

Offline PandaCollector

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2389
  • Karma: 75
  • Gender: Male
    • Pandacollector.com
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2011, 02:35:27 PM »
I may be out of my depth here, but as far as I can tell this article (http://www.jb008.cn/coin/article_view.asp?id=698) is primarily about the history of distribution of Chinese Mint coins. It indicates that post-2000 the Chinese Mint gained greater control over distribution. However, I couldn't find a mention of restrikes – just a list of foreign distributors for various series.  Is there another article on this topic somewhere else? Thanks for any clarification.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
http://www.pandacollector.com

Offline buynicething

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2011, 05:19:15 PM »
Hello,

It would be wonderful to some information of actual mintages.  I have been able to come across information for Pandas, through Peter's book, and the silver historical figures.  I can understand if people would like to keep their information secret.  Would anyone like to share actual mintages for other series.  It would be greatly appreciated by many on this forum including myself!

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2221
  • Karma: 117
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2011, 04:27:27 AM »
I may be out of my depth here, but as far as I can tell this article (http://www.jb008.cn/coin/article_view.asp?id=698) is primarily about the history of distribution of Chinese Mint coins. It indicates that post-2000 the Chinese Mint gained greater control over distribution. However, I couldn't find a mention of restrikes – just a list of foreign distributors for various series.  Is there another article on this topic somewhere else? Thanks for any clarification.
There are three tables in the article that listed the restrike coins by type and quantity for the year 2003, 2004, and 2005.  They are graphic files so Google can't translate them.  Most of the restrike are selected Historical Figures and Silk Road coins.  There are 585 restrikes of 1998 kilogram silver and a few 12-oz gold panda (1987, 1991). 

One topic being discussed was quite interesting: the melting of exist inventory of gold/silver/bi-metal coins in 2002.  Apparently they took place in 2 mints and were closely counted and supervised.  So for silver, 440,000 pieces total were melted for a net weight of 13586 kilogram, and for gold, 220,000 pieces were melted for a net weight of 1710kg.  That was a destruction of a significant fraction of the total gold & silver coins up till that time.  Another inventory clearing event took place in Oct 20, 1995 where all existing inventory of large size silver Panda including 5oz and 12oz were destroyed (20 pieces were preserved)

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2221
  • Karma: 117
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2011, 03:15:54 PM »
I may be out of my depth here, but as far as I can tell this article (http://www.jb008.cn/coin/article_view.asp?id=698) is primarily about the history of distribution of Chinese Mint coins. It indicates that post-2000 the Chinese Mint gained greater control over distribution. However, I couldn't find a mention of restrikes – just a list of foreign distributors for various series.  Is there another article on this topic somewhere else? Thanks for any clarification.
I rearranged the tables listed in the article.  Here are the restrike mintage from 2003 to 2005:

Restrike                               2003   2004   2005  total
1987 Panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz               2      2
1991 panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz               2      2
1996 silver dragon phoenix 150 yuan 20oz         2      2
1998 gold Tang vault protector 2000 Yuan       11           11
1998 siver Tang vault protector 200 Yuan      300   285      585
1999 silver goddess Guanyin 10 Yuan            18800         18800
1984 historical figure general silver 5 yuan         340   2400   2740
1984 historical figure captain silver 5 yuan      750   600   5700   7050
1984 historical figure kneeling silver 5 yuan      2600   500   1800   4900
1984 historical figure with horse silver 5 yuan      440      2600   3040
1986 historical figure Si Ma Qian silver 5 yuan      1650   810   1500   3960
1986 historical figure Zang Heng silver 5 yuan      800      2100   2900
1986 historical figure Cai Lun silver 5 yuan      1250   600   1700   3550
1986 historical figure Zu Zheng Zhi silver 5 yuan      550   1900   2450
1988 historical figure Yue Fei silver 5 yuan      200   810   2000   3010
1988 historical figure Bi Sheng silver 5 yuan      1850   450   1500   3800
1988 historical figure Li Qing Zhao silver 5 yuan    300      2050   2350
1988 historical figure Su Shi silver 5 yuan         600   1700   2300
1995 silk road travelling west silver 5 yuan         400   700   1100
1995 silk road dancing silver 5 yuan            380   700   1080
1995 silk road commerce silver 5 yuan            300   700   1000
1995 silk road silk making silver 5 yuan         300   700   1000
1996 silk road set silver 5 yuan            300   700   1000
1997 silk road trading    silver 5 yuan               1000   1000
1997 silk road banquet    silver 5 yuan               1000   1000
1997 silk road budda      silver 5 yuan               700   700
1997 silk road Riding camel silver 5 yuan            700   700

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2221
  • Karma: 117
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2011, 03:23:16 PM »
Hmmm, the columns do not line up, so I'm just confusing readers.  Let me simplify the table and try again:

Description                                     Total Restrike 
1987 Panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz               2
1991 panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz               2
1996 silver dragon phoenix 150 yuan 20oz     2
1998 gold Tang vault protector 2000 Yuan      11
1998 siver Tang vault protector 200 Yuan     585
1999 silver goddess Guanyin 10 Yuan           18800
1984 historical figure general silver 5 yuan     2740
1984 historical figure captain silver 5 yuan     7050
1984 historical figure kneeling silver 5 yuan     4900
1984 historical figure with horse silver 5 yuan     3040
1986 historical figure Si Ma Qian silver 5 yuan     3960
1986 historical figure Zang Heng silver 5 yuan     2900
1986 historical figure Cai Lun silver 5 yuan     3550
1986 historical figure Zu Zheng Zhi silver 5 yuan    2450
1988 historical figure Yue Fei silver 5 yuan     3010
1988 historical figure Bi Sheng silver 5 yuan     3800
1988 historical figure Li Qing Zhao silver 5 yuan 2350
1988 historical figure Su Shi silver 5 yuan     2300
1995 silk road travelling west silver 5 yuan     1100
1995 silk road dancing silver 5 yuan        1080
1995 silk road commerce silver 5 yuan        1000
1995 silk road silk making silver 5 yuan     1000
1996 silk road set silver 5 yuan              1000
1997 silk road trading    silver 5 yuan        1000
1997 silk road banquet    silver 5 yuan        1000
1997 silk road budda      silver 5 yuan        700
1997 silk road Riding camel silver 5 yuan     700

Still not great, but hopefully you get the picture.

tamo42

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2011, 03:50:58 PM »
Here's the formatting you wanted.

Restrike                               2003   2004   2005  total
1987 Panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz22
1991 panda gold 1000 yuan 12oz22
1996 silver dragon phoenix 150 yuan 20oz22
1998 gold Tang vault protector 2000 Yuan11     11
1998 siver Tang vault protector 200 Yuan   300   285      585
1999 silver goddess Guanyin 10 Yuan   18800         18800
1984 historical figure general silver 5 yuan340   2400   2740
1984 historical figure captain silver 5 yuan750   600   5700   7050
1984 historical figure kneeling silver 5 yuan2600500   1800   4900
1984 historical figure with horse silver 5 yuan440   2600   3040
1986 historical figure Si Ma Qian silver 5 yuan   1650   810   15003960
1986 historical figure Zang Heng silver 5 yuan800      2100   2900
1986 historical figure Cai Lun silver 5 yuan1250600   1700   3550
1986 historical figure Zu Zheng Zhi silver 5 yuan550   1900   2450
1988 historical figure Yue Fei silver 5 yuan200   810   2000   3010
1988 historical figure Bi Sheng silver 5 yuan1850   450   1500   3800
1988 historical figure Li Qing Zhao silver 5 yuan300      2050   2350
1988 historical figure Su Shi silver 5 yuan   600   1700   2300
1995 silk road travelling west silver 5 yuan400   700   1100
1995 silk road dancing silver 5 yuan380   700   1080
1995 silk road commerce silver 5 yuan300   700   
1000
1995 silk road silk making silver 5 yuan300   700   1000
1996 silk road set silver 5 yuan   300   700   1000
1997 silk road trading    silver 5 yuan1000   1000
1997 silk road banquet    silver 5 yuan1000   1000
1997 silk road budda      silver 5 yuan700   700
1997 silk road Riding camel silver 5 yuan   700   700

Offline buynicething

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: 0
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2011, 04:20:39 PM »
Thank you sandac and tamo42!  This is very interesting information!

Offline r3globe

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 531
  • Karma: 18
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2011, 02:59:57 PM »
There are three tables in the article that listed the restrike coins by type and quantity for the year 2003, 2004, and 2005.  They are graphic files so Google can't translate them.  Most of the restrike are selected Historical Figures and Silk Road coins.  There are 585 restrikes of 1998 kilogram silver and a few 12-oz gold panda (1987, 1991). 

One topic being discussed was quite interesting: the melting of exist inventory of gold/silver/bi-metal coins in 2002.  Apparently they took place in 2 mints and were closely counted and supervised.  So for silver, 440,000 pieces total were melted for a net weight of 13586 kilogram, and for gold, 220,000 pieces were melted for a net weight of 1710kg.  That was a destruction of a significant fraction of the total gold & silver coins up till that time.  Another inventory clearing event took place in Oct 20, 1995 where all existing inventory of large size silver Panda including 5oz and 12oz were destroyed (20 pieces were preserved)


So looking at the melted 2002 silver coins, this puts the mintage of 2002 Silver coins well under 80K, even lower than Peter's estimate, right??

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2539
  • Karma: 219
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #73 on: July 02, 2011, 03:40:37 PM »
So looking at the melted 2002 silver coins, this puts the mintage of 2002 Silver coins well under 80K, even lower than Peter's estimate, right??

No, there are pre-2002 coins and can be any year between 1979 and 2001. However, majority will be between 1995-2001, since some inventory, large size coins, were melted in 1995. This is the reason that the acutal mintages of 5 and 12 oz 1994 and 1995 unicorn and panda may be much lower than the planned mintages. The inventory clearing in 2002 by China Mint may also the reason of rarity of 2000 mirror panda which was made for domestic only. China did not have an open and legal market to trade the precious metal before 2002.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 03:51:44 PM by poconopenn »

Offline badon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Karma: -81
Re: Actual mintages
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2011, 10:01:55 PM »
I don't see the 1989 historical figures coins in that list - does that mean there are no restrikes for that date, or is the list not complete?