Author Topic: Panda lunar series  (Read 1113 times)

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Offline Tannenberg

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Panda lunar series
« on: January 22, 2019, 12:51:06 PM »
Does anyone know where one could find a 2015 antique panda lunar goat ncg pf70, and a 2016 antique panda lunar monkey ncg pf70?  What do they sell for?  They seem to be very hard to find.



Offline pandamonium

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2019, 07:22:01 AM »
If i am correct, this seller panda coin club is one of the top panda collectors.     He owns the highest grades.    Why is he selling?   The bullion market is moving up....

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2019, 04:56:07 PM »
Thank you

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 10:07:23 PM »
Has there been any discussion of whether this series is a "mintage trap"?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 08:01:37 PM »
Has there been any discussion of whether this series is a "mintage trap"?
Did you find out who sponsored this series?

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 08:16:06 PM »
I saw a you tube video by someone named Numistacker who tells a story of two different sponsors.  The story is somewhat confusing in that the sponsors seemed to work together at first, and then decided to take the series in two different directions. Numistacker himself has only good things to say about both sponsors.  From his remarks I thought the series seemed good, but then I learned about this "mintage trap" concern.  So I'm wondering if Numistacker is right to be so positive about these coins.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 08:28:28 PM »
Making buying decisions based on one person's opinion? Did you read through the thread in poconopenn's post? Here it is again, for your convenience: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11367.0

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 08:57:41 PM »
No, if one considers buying behavior represented on eBay, as well as comments by various people.  (If someone buys one of these coins for $800, as has happened, then that's pretty solid evidence that other people trust that the series is legit.) 

I'm enjoying the coins and I accept that "learning by doing" involves some cost.  But now that I am aware of the concept of a "mintage trap," I need to follow up with it in relation to this particular private series.  I can see that there is a smallish and very sophisticated group of collectors of such coins/medals.  Many of you write convincingly about many aspects of this sort of collecting.  From the point of view of an outsider--me--it is hard to judge which arguments and evidence to accept in cases where there are sophisticated arguments on opposing sides.  But that's the fun, too.  (The fact that there is such a long discussion of the classical garden series, including many contributors, to mention another private series, gives me confidence that that series is relatively safe.)

Hence my question about the "mintage trap."  And thanks for your comments.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 11:22:41 PM »
I first learned about the panda lunar series from Barsenault. If I am not mistaken, he was one of those behind the series, together with a dealer in China and one other person who parted way with him later.

If you have investment in mind, stay away from the new medals. You do not know how many are being produced every year, even by the official China mints. The Classical Garden series was the work of a group of Chinese collectors who loved the theme. There was no profit making by the sponsors. The prices were transparent and consistent over the years for each issue. Even under the close monitoring of the group, Shanghai Mint shamelessly minted the brass version of Yuyuan, the silver version of which was issued more than ten years ago and so was not under the contract with group. If you like the panda lunar series and the Classical Garden series, that's fine. If you are thinking about price appreciation, there are better investments, like the 1986 proof circulating coin set that has tripled in price in recent years.

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 11:36:55 PM »
Fwang: thank you for your help.  I had not read the thread about mintage trap and pump and dump.  The beauty of the coins stands in contrast to the behavior of those who would trick collectors.  As a famous philosopher put it: "From the crooked timber of mankind nothing straight can be fashioned."  I guess I've just paid tuition for a quick course in MCC coins and medals.  Still many of these coins are quite beautiful and lovely to view. My grandchildren will have a good story to tell, some beautiful coins to play with, and, who knows, a coin or two with some market value.
 
Thanks again for your help. 

Offline wg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2019, 03:09:35 AM »
Quote
(..) If you have investment in mind, stay away from the new medals...

 N31
+1

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2019, 07:31:37 AM »
MEDALS!
Those wonderful commemorative pieces of art, produced off the flagship Panda season, for enthusiasts and momento Huns, to continue feeding their beasts! Items that should have been sold affordably hot off the press but were not, either right from the start or after passing through the middleman, a.k.a. the privateer. Then re-engineering and hype, out of this world, by those who knew better but chose to obfuscate in order to inflate. Poor newbies stood no chance, swooning in ecstasy and dropping the dough by the bucket. Now they sit on piles of crap, gas masks useless and wishing they were somewhere else. Pumpers now in bitcoins but can’t make a killing that sees the morning light because they can’t move that market like they used to do for medals. Experts warned about the coin/medal conundrum but were tackled with smoke bombs, stink bombs and bullhorns. It took a long time to penetrate the smokescreen, to take back the truth, street by street. Thunderstorms eventually clear, starbursts are only momentary, orgasms can only last so long, and a collection class has been sullied. Novelty wears off as the minting press cranks them out by the tens and hundreds; silver, copper, brass, bronze, pewter, antique silver, antique copper, antique brass; even gold! This seemed to make sense at the beginning. Then the Yuyuan was diversified, after the fact, in the middle of the night, thereby muddying the uniqueness of the original medal in the series! Reminds you of those baubles that were given to the natives in exchange for their land! You could almost have anything antiqued including your mother-in-law! What else to say? Hang on to your medals? Buy what you like? Looking for what it says to you, shows you and reminds you? You definitely won’t go from zero to sixty in six seconds with them but you can do the reverse in a blink of the eye. Perhaps one will make you oodles of cash in some indeterminable future, but most others could lose you the cash that was guaranteed by the hype. But they tell you to wait because the market will soon mature and the Yuan will be King! Buy yourself some noise canceling headphones and sort through the pile to determine who your rainmaker is, your Wizard of Oz; for the barrier to entry is low, and Harry and Dick, are in the minting game. Merde!

***PS: Not hating on the medal. Just learning at the school of hard knocks!

KOT!
2019
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline Tannenberg

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2019, 01:46:40 PM »
 
Fwang notes that "Even under the close monitoring of the group, Shanghai Mint shamelessly minted the brass version of Yuyuan..."  Where can one read up on the actual practices of the three official mints?  How does Fwang know the Shanghai mint failed got follow its promise regarding mintage sizes?

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Panda lunar series
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2019, 08:08:14 AM »
I like the early year medals like the 1985 Palace Museum silver that represent important parts of China,  i posted about and others medals that are semi unknown....

Poconpen posted that the 1982 Gold Panda is officially now a coin not a medal.   Looks like a medal.     Could other early year Gold Panda medals become official coins too as this market matures?    Could early year silver like the HK 1984-89 panda medals and others become official coins too?

Early years are still affordable.....