Author Topic: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money  (Read 9291 times)

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Offline collectingcoins

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2017, 10:10:33 PM »
Wow! Where did you find all those variations for the Anaheim?!  That's just too many. They must have had minted some afterwards.

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2017, 11:38:52 PM »
I know I'm new here and to coins in general, but that doesn't seem to make sense?  When does the line ever stop? Can they do it 10 years later. Seems a little scary to me as a new collector of this stuff. Has this kind of thing happened before? If so, when? Thank you.

The mintage can't ever be increased beyond what is on the COA. In most cases the total mintage is produced in the initial run and that is that.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com


Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2017, 02:45:11 AM »
Wow! Where did you find all those variations for the Anaheim?!  That's just too many. They must have had minted some afterwards.

At the 2016 ANA show the release 1oz gold, 1oz silver and 12oz silver to the public.  Then at private dinner they gave away a brass and copper.  Then a few weeks later Govmint got their production of 50g gold and 50g silver.  The trimetals I don't remember.  Sometimes the mint has production issues and medals can't be all ready for show distribution, the 12oz silver had a lot of problems and only 28 were available at the show and handful more in distributor hands.

It is possible mint produces coins years after, the 1979 year of child silver matte was produced in 1988 with date on the coin 1979.  The 1982 1oz gold panda I believe was produced in 1982, 1983 and 1986, the 1986 one's grade MS69 most often.

I collect only a limited number of medals, because I don't see can barriers to someone making as many different ones as they want, the market is being dumped on with show medals.  The Honolulu show medals were issued at the show for $2500, dealers could buy more at $3000, today I have picked them up at $1600.  Some of the older in 1980s show medals can be had for $20-$50 over melt, there is almost no demand for them, except their bullion value.

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2017, 04:07:51 AM »

It is possible mint produces coins years after, the 1979 year of child silver matte was produced in 1988 with date on the coin 1979.  The 1982 1oz gold panda I believe was produced in 1982, 1983 and 1986, the 1986 one's grade MS69 most often. 

As I understand it, this practice was made illegal in China for coins and was stopped many years ago.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2017, 06:29:08 AM »
Thank you Arif for your appraisal of show medals. It is helpful.  I guess I'll keep one set.  It's not like $99.00 and $39.00 will break the bank. And as a collector, it's not about selling them right away, if ever.  It's to look at, marvel over, and appreciate the fine display of the minting details.  If I was buying 20 of them to flip (as you say) then I would be nervous. It doesn't seem like it would be fun to watch a these things bought at 99 to go down to $30. I'll stick with collecting. :-) Best.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2017, 08:33:39 AM »
At the 2016 ANA show the release 1oz gold, 1oz silver and 12oz silver to the public.  Then at private dinner they gave away a brass and copper.  Then a few weeks later Govmint got their production of 50g gold and 50g silver.  The trimetals I don't remember.  Sometimes the mint has production issues and medals can't be all ready for show distribution, the 12oz silver had a lot of problems and only 28 were available at the show and handful more in distributor hands.

It is possible mint produces coins years after, the 1979 year of child silver matte was produced in 1988 with date on the coin 1979.  The 1982 1oz gold panda I believe was produced in 1982, 1983 and 1986, the 1986 one's grade MS69 most often.

I collect only a limited number of medals, because I don't see can barriers to someone making as many different ones as they want, the market is being dumped on with show medals.  The Honolulu show medals were issued at the show for $2500, dealers could buy more at $3000, today I have picked them up at $1600.  Some of the older in 1980s show medals can be had for $20-$50 over melt, there is almost no demand for them, except their bullion value.




What other coins/medals besides the 79 Year of Child Matte and 82 1 oz gold pandas were restruck in later years?    Is there a list?........

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2017, 10:01:39 AM »
At the 2016 ANA show the release 1oz gold, 1oz silver and 12oz silver to the public.  Then at private dinner they gave away a brass and copper.  Then a few weeks later Govmint got their production of 50g gold and 50g silver.  The trimetals I don't remember.  Sometimes the mint has production issues and medals can't be all ready for show distribution, the 12oz silver had a lot of problems and only 28 were available at the show and handful more in distributor hands.

It is possible mint produces coins years after, the 1979 year of child silver matte was produced in 1988 with date on the coin 1979. The 1982 1oz gold panda I believe was produced in 1982, 1983 and 1986, the 1986 one's grade MS69 most often.

I collect only a limited number of medals, because I don't see can barriers to someone making as many different ones as they want, the market is being dumped on with show medals.  The Honolulu show medals were issued at the show for $2500, dealers could buy more at $3000, today I have picked them up at $1600.  Some of the older in 1980s show medals can be had for $20-$50 over melt, there is almost no demand for them, except their bullion value.

As I understand it, this practice was made illegal in China for coins and was stopped many years ago.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Very interesting piece of information. I never knew this happened.
Thanks for the tidbits!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2017, 10:15:56 AM »
I just did some research on the Anaheim medals, and I see that they had 4 different types.  Seems like a lot?  I really like that big panda on the Denver piece. I just noticed that only 2 are made available for purchase now, and then another one or two different styles are available at the show?  How many different versions will modern coin mart have?  Mark, I happen to agree with you, it seems like a lot of shows, and different types of medals being introduced in a short period of time. Makes my head dizzy with confusion.  I wonder if it is because more and more people are on a panda craze? Is there a point when there is market over saturation, and people lose interest?  Will, I like the look of the boxes. I'm assuming we will have to wait until the show to see what the real show medal looks like?  Thank you.

10?! No way. That's crazy.  When did all this change? It used to be where there were 2 or 3 pandas based on what I've gathered. 10 is a bit extreme? 6 is extreme enough! Perplexed. Looks like Denver will have a minimum of 6. As mentioned, at what point to people get exhausted trying to keep up? Some already have.  I think these show organizers have to a better job approving and limiting what is acceptable? But if people are buying them, it may be a little difficult to stop?

This is wanton commercialism that is only interested in short term monetary gains. Unfortunately it damages the hobby longterm. I haven't bought as many varieties as I used to do previously. I just pick up one or two particular designs I am interested in after the hype dies down and they are more reasonably priced. I walk away if they are untenable. The gold medal premiums have become ridiculous!

It is particularly difficult for those who participate in the coin registries as they have to buy all on offer to keep up with their scores and lead. Perhaps NGC and PCGS should start limiting the varieties they allow on their registries.
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Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2017, 11:00:12 AM »

What other coins/medals besides the 79 Year of Child Matte and 82 1 oz gold pandas were restruck in later years?    Is there a list?........

There are other coins, like historical figures and invention/discovery that were minted years after original year of issue, but all future minting was within the stated mintage on the COA, assuming COA was official.   If the COA was produced by distributor then it is anyone's guess how many were produced.  I don't have a list, just know about it from conversations with dealers over the years.   

I don't know the current rules for each of the mints on when is the latest a coin can be produced after the initial  run to full fill the COA limit.  For private mints I assume the rules are more relaxed.  This why medals have always been a collecting item for me and never an investment, I just don't like owning something that could have a hoard released into the market, because the original distributor needs to raise money fast or dies and bunch of coins hit the market.   I have seen many hoards get dumped at cheap prices over the years.   Even old medals from 1980s are locked up in hoards.  While gold pandas may still be locked up in hoards, the reality is the market demand is so high that moving 10-20 pieces of the same coin is easy, not so with medals, you may be able to sell on 1-4 quickly, but rest you are stuck with for years, even worse if they grade PF68 or lower, there is no liquidity for them unless price is close to melt.

Bottomline official medals should be collected for fun with little focus on making money.  The private mint medals collect them as souvenirs they will probably lose value as nicer ones will come out at lower mintage to trap unsuspecting investors of their potential value.   

Offline ccl

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2017, 11:21:32 AM »
a clear trend down since release

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2017, 07:44:51 PM »
There are other coins, like historical figures and invention/discovery that were minted years after original year of issue, but all future minting was within the stated mintage on the COA, assuming COA was official.   If the COA was produced by distributor then it is anyone's guess how many were produced.  I don't have a list, just know about it from conversations with dealers over the years.   

I don't know the current rules for each of the mints on when is the latest a coin can be produced after the initial  run to full fill the COA limit.  For private mints I assume the rules are more relaxed.  This why medals have always been a collecting item for me and never an investment, I just don't like owning something that could have a hoard released into the market, because the original distributor needs to raise money fast or dies and bunch of coins hit the market.   I have seen many hoards get dumped at cheap prices over the years.   Even old medals from 1980s are locked up in hoards.  While gold pandas may still be locked up in hoards, the reality is the market demand is so high that moving 10-20 pieces of the same coin is easy, not so with medals, you may be able to sell on 1-4 quickly, but rest you are stuck with for years, even worse if they grade PF68 or lower, there is no liquidity for them unless price is close to melt.

Bottomline official medals should be collected for fun with little focus on making money.  The private mint medals collect them as souvenirs they will probably lose value as nicer ones will come out at lower mintage to trap unsuspecting investors of their potential value.   




The 1986 PF 69 Hong Kong Expo 12 oz Silver Panda   $6,000 Clark Smith listed on his site, sold.      Which 1980's medals do you specify?   

Get my plug in ...King World News   "Dave Holter & Lynette Zang"    long interview but worth listening to.    They mention PCGS ultra rarity index, numismatic and collectible coins......

Offline 1003

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2017, 10:20:51 PM »
I guess he was talking about some gold 1 ouncers, like some 1987 gold 1 oz medals, not silver ones.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2017, 04:07:01 PM »
Both gold and silver from the 1980s are still in horads.  Silver hoards are bigger, I have seen 20+ 1984 1oz HK come out, 40+ of 1985-1987 5oz and 12oz silver HK, however, quality varies coins could be PF65-PF69, a getting PF69 quality large silver from the 1980s is hard and I can understand why a single coin could trade for a high price. 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2017, 07:14:56 PM »
The 1984 HK Expo silver panda 1 oz PF 70 is rare.   Maybe someone could post a photo!       I read a while back that the 1985 HK Expo 5 oz & 86 HK 12 oz silvers, both in highest grade PF 69 are going to be top pandas to collect.    85 is 1st yr of 5 oz and 86 is 1st yr of 12 oz.     Early years do not have many high grades as you stated.   ( Was once asked if the Mint would restrike these but i think that is impossible as the dies should be damaged and the graders could see the difference if new dies were made)......       A set of highest grade PF 70 or PF 69  1984 - 89 HK Expo silvers should be a top set to own when this market finally takes off.     I do not own a set......
For private mint early years i think Feng Yunming's semi official medals will rise to the top in time.     No publication on him yet but that is what his medals need.....
Fwang your translation blogs have been a big help.   Now get off your buns and start translating more.    That is very valuable information and i really want to read more!!.... :001_tt2:

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2017, 10:21:50 PM »
Thanks for sharing all the helpful insights.  So much to learn.  I was reading this piece from the MCM site where it says, 'To commemorate this highly-anticipated occasion, MCM will proudly be the sole distributor of 2017 Gold and Silver Denver ANA Show Pandas.'.

https://www.moderncoinmart.com/tags/2017-ana-world-s-fair-of-money-show-pandas/

If they are the Sole distributor, how is it possible that Panda America can be approved to provide these denver show medals?