Author Topic: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda  (Read 5200 times)

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Offline GoldenLord

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New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« on: October 30, 2016, 07:58:18 PM »
And another Panda for 2016..
thats many Releases for this year.

The new one have 1 Oz Fine Silver and limited 888.
I really like the Little Panda Babys  :001_wub:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hong-Kong-2016-Panda-Inaugual-HKCS-PCGS-PR69DCAM-Secure-1-OZAlmost-Perfect-PROOF-/391607970809?hash=item5b2da76bf9:g:1NIAAOSwB09YEwBP

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2016, 08:51:57 PM »
Minted by?

Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 09:06:16 PM »
I attended this Hong Kong Coin Show.  With four major organizers, an international group of coin and currency dealers and a beautiful setting in the upper reaches of the Mira Hotel, this coin show was very, very impressive.

After attending the event, I purchased three of the gold medals commemorating this event for my personal collection.  NGC authenticated, graded and encapsulated these medals for me. 

I am pleased to see that PCGS is also grading the silver medals.

Mark Bonke

Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 09:26:39 PM »
Wow there are so many panda medals in 2016. This Hong Kong show panda does not even mention if it is BU or proof, or at which mint it is minted on the COA.

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 09:28:41 PM »
The above eBay link.  Are those white spots I see in the PCGS holder already in a 69?

Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2016, 09:31:06 PM »
Minted by?
I looked at the COA, it does not mention the mint at all, nor does the COA paper has any watermark that indicates the mint.
IMHO, I feel that there are way too many panda medals in 2016 and some of them seem not to be so official to me.

Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2016, 09:44:52 PM »
I attended this Hong Kong Coin Show.  With four major organizers, an international group of coin and currency dealers and a beautiful setting in the upper reaches of the Mira Hotel, this coin show was very, very impressive.

After attending the event, I purchased three of the gold medals commemorating this event for my personal collection.  NGC authenticated, graded and encapsulated these medals for me. 

I am pleased to see that PCGS is also grading the silver medals.

Mark Bonke
Hi Mark,
Would you mind uploading a picture of the gold medal? What is the mintage?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2016, 11:19:44 PM »
Here is another new low mintage silver panda medal (60 gm.) from Nanjing Mint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HK-2016-Panda-Great-China-C-Asso-HK-PCGS-PR69DCAM-Secure-2-OZ-Almost-Perfect-PF-/391609026514?hash=item5b2db787d2:g:PFQAAOSw5cNYFGwd

Just be aware "mintage trap" of those recently issued panda medals.

Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2016, 07:12:06 AM »
The Hong Kong Coin Show 1oz gold medal has a mintage of 28 and is graded as a proof medal by NGC.  It has the same design as shown for the silver medal.

Remember, some coin forum members have stressed for many years that it is important to purchase coins and not medals. Then, several years ago, NGC started labeling some medals as "official" and some investors resubmitted their medals to have the labels changed to show the "official" status.  Recently, an attempt has been made to reclassify certain past, present and future panda design medals commemorating coin shows as "official show pandas" to avoid any negative implications of the term "medal."  For these "official show pandas", it is no longer acceptable to use the "m" word. 

I purchased the Hong Kong Coin Show gold medals because I was impressed by the coin show and felt it was going to play an important role in the sale of Chinese coins to investors from the Peoples Republic of China.  The April and August coin shows in the lower level of the Holiday Inn in Kowloon have been very crowded affairs with many watch dealers.  From my point of view, the coin shows at the Holiday Inn represent the past, and the Hong Kong Coin Show organized by Stacks Bowers, Spink, Coin In Coin and Shouxi (April and August shows) and the Hong Kong International Numismatic Fair organized by Heritage (June and December shows) represent the future.   Based on my impressions, I purchased a few momentos of the event for my collection and, fortunately, NGC was willing to encapsulate them for me.



Mark Bonke 



   

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 07:59:20 AM »
Nice medals.    The popularity of new issue, low mintage medals has got to give life to early year, low mintage medals.   Asian's still love coins over medals but how long will that last?   Medals have got to become popular at some point and change the mind of purist collectors of coins.    Fwang posted some time ago on his translation blog of Why Medals?     Early year medals seem way undervalued to me.......Will the M word rise to the top as the market slowly matures?.......may take a while but it should go in that direction.....       am i way off base?....

Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 08:41:29 AM »
I do not know what collectors or investors will do in the future.  Certainly, the marketplace is flooded with 21st Century Chinese medals (some with low mintage and some with not).  And, certainly, the modern Chinese medals from the late 1970s and 1980s are rare.  A few collectors could easily purchase all of the early post-Mao medals.  Possibly, they already have.  I have seen very few older medals in the marketplace.

Mark Bonke

Offline Honus

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 11:28:43 AM »
The above eBay link.  Are those white spots I see in the PCGS holder already in a 69?

Good catch PandaorLunar, that's exactly what you're seeing.  Wow...I'm surprised at how many there are, and how fast they popped up.   
Eric Liquori
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www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 05:51:23 PM »
It takes only 1 month for PCGS holders to accelerate white spots on silver and about 3 months to tone gold to dark yellow color.  Anytime you see a major portion of the mintage slabbed to PCGS, buy spot free omp or spot free NGC, they will be gems compared to their PCGS spotted counterparts after a few months to many years out.

Offline Russ 736

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 06:49:03 PM »
Great advice Arif. I recently sent in some 2016 PCGS Panda medals for crossover. I had to have them put through NCS to remove the toning to get them to cross at the same grade. I was lucky that there were no WSOD but the example of the 1 oz. Hong Kong Coin Show on Ebay appears to be covered with them.

Russ

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2016, 11:33:23 PM »
The recent high profile Show Panda (medal) releases have made it impossible for low mintage Panda medals to continue being ignored. The designs look good and increase the variety of offerings available to collectors!
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 01:29:14 AM »
I plan to ignore them ;)

If they are so handsome, why such a low mintage?  Oh, right. Because nobody wants them :)

Offline xiaohei99

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2016, 02:31:38 AM »
I plan to ignore them ;)

If they are so handsome, why such a low mintage?  Oh, right. Because nobody wants them :)

Agreed. I'm sick of so many newly issued so-called "official medals" to celebrate some shows, despite some seasoned forum members even got involved in selling or promoting.
They might have some desirable designs, but considering their hefty price compared to other coins readliy available, I don't see why choose these medals.
No offense, just my 2 cents.


Offline Tao-Panda

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 03:35:21 AM »
Agreed. I'm sick of so many newly issued so-called "official medals" to celebrate some shows, despite some seasoned forum members even got involved in selling or promoting.
They might have some desirable designs, but considering their hefty price compared to other coins readliy available, I don't see why choose these medals.
No offense, just my 2 cents.

I agree at 100% !

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 06:21:45 AM »
The China mint stated they will begin to produce many more new issue, low mintage medals so this is the beginning.    I do not think all will be Show Pandas.    Again, the collector's attention should be given to early issue, low mintage medals.    Maybe this new issue medal run will begin a discussion in China of Medals VS Coins.    Medals are gaining acceptance but it is not acknowledged yet.    Once the cultural barrier is broken then medals may be on equal ground w/ coins, maybe....... I really like all the new designs but so many to choose from......

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 07:39:29 AM »
Fact: The world of MCC is large enough to accommodate every type of collector.
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Offline Honus

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2016, 10:20:25 AM »
I've been open to show medals in the past - I have golds from several of the late '80s shows - and the idea of "too much" is purely person and subjective but right now it just feels like too much.  When they are issued too frequently to keep up with and you can't even try to keep track, it feels like too much.  Notice I'm including the word "feels" in there, because I'm sure some of you are rocket scientists who can remember 30-digit numbers and know how to bend time using a clothespin and jar of apple sauce, so for the geniuses here there's no such thing as too much.  But when I say to myself, "forget it, they're coming out too fast to even try to remember them, just stick to pandas" that's my brain's way of saying it's too much. 
Eric Liquori
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Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 11:34:24 AM »
I started to feel bad or not so positive about panda medals from the ANA Anaheim issues this year. There is almost no announcement in advance describing how many medals will be issued for a certain show. Later on, the 50 gram silver medal popped up in MCM's promotion email, selling at $495 with an original price of $1495. Wow, what a discount! I immediately feel this kind of trick is often used to promote something that is less desirable or far below the claimed value. Though all panda medals are coming from the official mints of China, but I believe some of the medals are "less official" in nature than others. I believe individuals or dealers can ask these mints to do a medal program if they pay the mint a certain manufacturing cost and reach a minimum mintage. I think this Hong Kong panda is definitely less official since  its COA does not even mention which mint it comes from but certainly, it comes from one of the four mints in China. The 2016 Hong Kong panda is promoted by a company called Shouxi back in China. It also plays another trick on their webpages, stating that the actual mintage is 570 even though the COA says 888.

Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2016, 11:35:40 AM »
I've been open to show medals in the past - I have golds from several of the late '80s shows - and the idea of "too much" is purely person and subjective but right now it just feels like too much.  When they are issued too frequently to keep up with and you can't even try to keep track, it feels like too much.  Notice I'm including the word "feels" in there, because I'm sure some of you are rocket scientists who can remember 30-digit numbers and know how to bend time using a clothespin and jar of apple sauce, so for the geniuses here there's no such thing as too much.  But when I say to myself, "forget it, they're coming out too fast to even try to remember them, just stick to pandas" that's my brain's way of saying it's too much. 
I agree. There are definitely too many panda medals, at least in 2016.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2016, 12:01:16 PM »
I've been open to show medals in the past - I have golds from several of the late '80s shows - and the idea of "too much" is purely person and subjective but right now it just feels like too much.  When they are issued too frequently to keep up with and you can't even try to keep track, it feels like too much.  Notice I'm including the word "feels" in there, because I'm sure some of you are rocket scientists who can remember 30-digit numbers and know how to bend time using a clothespin and jar of apple sauce, so for the geniuses here there's no such thing as too much.  But when I say to myself, "forget it, they're coming out too fast to even try to remember them, just stick to pandas" that's my brain's way of saying it's too much. 

I buy medals too but I decide on what makes sense to me and ignore the rest. There are people out there who may like those that I don't like and I leave it up to them. Yes, those medals are coming fast and furious but it is free world.

My main concern is with the endemic silver spotting problem which makes silver coins and medals potentially problematic buys. So I buy gold when I can or antique silver. There is a suggestion out there that the silver spotting problem is less with certain mints and more with others but definitive proof is lacking (AFAIK).
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Offline Honus

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2016, 12:11:15 PM »
Yes, those medals are coming fast and furious but it is free world.

And I don't think anyone here is preaching the ways of Mao or Stalin, or arguing for regulation or restriction of medal production.  It goes without saying that this is a free world, and nobody on this forum is lobbying otherwise.   My comment - and while I don't presume to speak for anyone else here, I think I understand the gist of where others are coming from - and the comments of others are merely to be taken as buyer feedback.   The mints/dealers/show promoters etc. are free to heed/ignore our feedback as they see fit.
Eric Liquori
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Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2016, 06:12:19 PM »
As a collector of modern Chinese coins and medals, I am always struggling with many issues.  Do I like the design?  Is the condition of the coin or medal acceptable?  Is the price "low enough" when I consider the condition, the planned mintage and the unknown surviving mintage?  Will NGC authenticate, grade and encapsulate the coin or medal for me?  Will the coin or medal deteriorate over time (white spots, red spots, unattractive haze vs attractive toning, etc.)?

As a collector, I do not care much about the label (first strike, early release, official mint issue, official show panda, etc.).  These labels help the dealers sell coins or medals for an added premium soon after the item is released.  These labels do not help collectors resell the items to dealers in the future.

This year, I wanted to purchase the gold ANA Anaheim "official show panda," the gold Honolulu "official show panda," and the bimetal Honolulu "official show panda."  The designs were attractive (to me).   The condition of items for sale was excellent.  Planned mintage was acceptable.  Price was too high (again for me).  In contrast, my analysis of the gold panda medals commemorating the new Hong Kong Coin Show led me to purchase three for my collection.  Was this a correct decision?  Probably, not.

There is no easy answer for any of us, whether we are collectors, investors or dealers.

If anyone ever asks my advice, I never tell them to do as I do, but to follow the sound advice given to us by Arif. 

Mark Bonke 

Offline 1003

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2016, 06:21:06 PM »
As a collector of modern Chinese coins and medals, I am always struggling with many issues.  Do I like the design?  Is the condition of the coin or medal acceptable?  Is the price "low enough" when I consider the condition, the planned mintage and the unknown surviving mintage?  Will NGC authenticate, grade and encapsulate the coin or medal for me?  Will the coin or medal deteriorate over time (white spots, red spots, unattractive haze vs attractive toning, etc.)?

As a collector, I do not care much about the label (first strike, early release, official mint issue, official show panda, etc.).  These labels help the dealers sell coins or medals for an added premium soon after the item is released.  These labels do not help collectors resell the items to dealers in the future.

This year, I wanted to purchase the gold ANA Anaheim "official show panda," the gold Honolulu "official show panda," and the bimetal Honolulu "official show panda."  The designs were attractive (to me).   The condition of items for sale was excellent.  Planned mintage was acceptable.  Price was too high (again for me).  In contrast, my analysis of the gold panda medals commemorating the new Hong Kong Coin Show led me to purchase three for my collection.  Was this a correct decision?  Probably, not.

There is no easy answer for any of us, whether we are collectors, investors or dealers.

If anyone ever asks my advice, I never tell them to do as I do, but to follow the sound advice given to us by Arif. 

Mark Bonke 
What was the issuing price of the Hong Kong panda medals at the show?

Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2016, 07:29:18 PM »
Great question!  And I do not know the answer.  I saw the gold and silver medals at the show.  I liked the design, the condition and the mintage.  All were ungraded.  I saw a silver medal with a COA #011 and, for some unknown reason, I liked the COA #.  I asked the price for the silver medal.  It seemed reasonable.  I asked the price for the gold medal and, for the low mintage, seemed reasonable.  Unfortunately, I did not have any money.  I had paid for items purchased at the Stacks Bowers auction and had used almost all of my cash.  I went to an ATM machine and my bank refused my request for money.  Reality struck. 

After the Hong Kong Coin Show, I sent an email to Chen Haomin with Coin-In-Coin in Guangzhou, PRC, and arranged to purchase the gold medals.  For some unknown reason, I did not purchase any silver medals, although the two which I saw at the coin show were in excellent condition and were free from white spots.

Possibly, Peter Anthony knows the prices for the medals.  If I remember correctly, he did attend the coin show and he did see the medals at the show.

Mark Bonke

       

Offline silberschatzimsee

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2016, 03:20:25 PM »
I avoid medals and i am not into this labeling-business.for me a coin has to be flawless and omp.
If there is now a kungfu-panda or some other critter on the label i dont care. Imho this are tricks to attract more clueless to pay stupid prices.

And that the father is head of an gradeing agency where the son is a major dealer is just the topping of the cake :/

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2016, 08:22:32 PM »
Forget labels, check out new red core.  I have few gold pandas with the red core and they actually look great. I wouldn't pay more than the reslabbing premium of $15.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/301860438346

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2016, 12:03:41 PM »
I think this Hong Kong panda is definitely less official since  its COA does not even mention which mint it comes from but certainly, it comes from one of the four mints in China. The 2016 Hong Kong panda is promoted by a company called Shouxi back in China. It also plays another trick on their webpages, stating that the actual mintage is 570 even though the COA says 888.

First, the Hong Kong Coin Show medal is not from "one of the four mints in China." If this is about government mints then there are five that strike medals: Shanghai, Shenzhen Guobao, Shenyang, Nanjing and Chengdu. There are numerous private mints that can also produce good quality work, but they have no connection to the government. All their products are unofficial. The Hong Kong Coin Show medal is a product of one if these private mints. One on the outskirts of Shanghai, if memory serves.

My recollection of the  reason that there were 570 struck instead of the expected total was a technical problem like a broken die. They just decided to call it quits after that. I don't believe there is anything deceitful in that. It has happened before at official mints, too.

Disclosure: I have absolutely no connection to this medal in any way except that I know and interviewed the gentleman who comissioned it.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com


Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2016, 01:00:35 PM »
Do you know why they choose to use private mint vs government mint. 

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2016, 05:27:24 PM »
Do you know why they choose to use private mint vs government mint.

No, I don't, however a private mint is much easier to work with. A government mint may have capacity constraints and policy constraints that a private mint does not, or has to a lesser degree. Price may be an issue as well, although I doubt that matters for the Hong Kong Coin Show issue.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com


Offline bonke

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Re: New Hong Kong Coin Show Panda
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2016, 08:11:06 AM »
A coin forum member raised the issue of the price (at the coin show) for the gold and silver 2016 Hong Kong Coin show medals.  I did not remember and sent an email to Chen Haomin (the CEO of Coin In Coin Collectables, Inc.).  Within the last few hours, he responded to my request for information.  He had just returned home from the big coin show at the National Convention Center in Beijing.

I still do not know the price offered at the coin show for the raw/ungraded medals in OMP.

I do know Chen Haomin has sent some of the medals to NGC for authentication, grading and encapsulation.  He has 8 gold medals with prices of $2900 for NGC 69s and $3100 for NGC 70s.  Also, he has 132 silver medals with prices of $90 for NGC 67s, $110 for NGC 68s and $130 for NGC 69s.  If you are interested in these medals, you must contact him directly at wajb008@163.com.  His mailing address is Coin In Coin Collectables, 3rd Floor, Dongmingzuan, Zhongshan Si Road, Guangzhou.

I do not know the census numbers for these medals.  My gold medals graded 2-70 and 1-69. 

When I purchased my gold medals, I contacted Chen Haomin at the above-mentioned email address and we exchanged emails until we had worked out the details and I made my purchase.  It is a little more difficult to do business with someone in the PRC, but Chen Haomin is a very nice person and I have enjoyed having the opportunity to get to know him.

Mark Bonke