Author Topic: New Panda Buyers Guide  (Read 5712 times)

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Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2016, 06:22:09 AM »
Hmm.  I'm a bit bothered by the fact that we have CCF members that are not under contractual obligation didn't informed the forum/other members there are more "latest" release out there.  Oh well.

Offline mowi

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2016, 08:15:59 AM »
Peter

I wish to reserve two copies of the new edition of your book in advance.  How much will it cost?  Where do I send my check?  I have found your book to be very, very information and extremely helpful as I build my small collection of modern Chinese coins and medals.

Mark Bonke

+1.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to give my sincere appreciation to the "senior" CCF members(wont list all of you, but you know). The knowledgeable members here, Peters book/CP, together with my own little research from ebay/zhao/Lugong has been my tools to start collecting and but also to change my path of what coins to look for and what to buy/sell.

Peter,
Again great job! Looking fwd to a new version of the book. :)
/Mowi

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2016, 09:31:02 AM »
I think it is great that a major US dealer wants to give a panda book to its customer even if it means I can't buy one.  The more new collectors created by any means is good for all of us. 



This goes without saying.  However the main point here is that Peter was being a little disingenuous to this forum when members were specifically asking about the next book.  His direct response was he was working on it.  All along three other editions were already published that he failed to mention on purpose for whatever reason.

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2016, 01:16:29 PM »
I can't wait for the next edition. Looking forward to it.  Also think Peter, as an entrepreneur is free to disclose and distribute as he wishes.  If he contracted an exclusive deal with Gov Mint for a book he wrote then kudos to him. With the next edition we will see more interest in coins we have tucked away since long ago.  Exciting times are ahead.

Offline Russ 736

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2016, 03:53:13 PM »
Well said Wafdawg. IMO, Peter Anthony is a very honest and straight forward person. To my knowledge, he has never shown any inclination toward deception or omission for personal gain. I completely agree that his contributions through his books and articles   are almost incalculable for Panda collectors. I look forward to the release of his next public edition book for new insights into current Panda releases as well as new potential varieties in the Panda series.

Russ


Offline PandaCollector

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2016, 06:12:45 PM »
I am truly sorry that Chris, whom I greatly respect, isn't pleased with the book publicity situation. All I can add is that I would have been delighted to announce this, it was very good news for me, but it wasn't my news to make public. The forthcoming edition is my news and if you see a guy standing outside with a sign reading, "Panda books for sale," you can guess who it is.

P.S. I will have something else that is interesting (hopefully) to announce in the next week, or so.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline jc888888888

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2016, 07:10:20 PM »
Thanks Peter ........  looking forward to the news .. I kinda get how Chris felt, the hunger for knowledge is much appreciated, but I completely get that a company like gov mint would want exclusivity for there customers for something they contracted with you to publish for their customers ..... also there is this thing about being in a free country and free speech and such that seems to have been put on the back burner lately ....things like the second amendment and such.............  GO VOTE   

Offline ccl

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2016, 08:08:22 PM »
I agree. More collectors is better overall. Especially, if they can pay govmint premiums. I'm all for it! I'm also waiting for this book. I would like to purchase a couple of copies and give one away on my YT channel as a promotion.
I'll tell you another side. As a coin dealer, taking calls from people who have spent $5000 on common 1.9 oz gold panda sets and having to break the news regarding what is fair market value is one of the things I dislike the most. How many people must the hobby lose from buying counterfeits or (just as bad?), overpaying in a big way - even from a company they came to trust in? In my experience these guys don't represent more collectors, they become people who 'move on' from a bad experience never to look back.

Offline Honus

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2016, 01:45:11 AM »
I'll tell you another side. As a coin dealer, taking calls from people who have spent $5000 on common 1.9 oz gold panda sets and having to break the news regarding what is fair market value is one of the things I dislike the most. How many people must the hobby lose from buying counterfeits or (just as bad?), overpaying in a big way - even from a company they came to trust in? In my experience these guys don't represent more collectors, they become people who 'move on' from a bad experience never to look back.

This is an EXCELLENT point, and one which should resonate with everyone on this forum.  Take a look at this listing...

http://www.govmint.com/world-coins/top-world-coins/panda-coins/2013-china-gold-panda-prestige-set-pcgs-ms69-first-strike.html

Can you imagine the disappointment and feeling of regret and/or shame a buyer will feel when they discover how grossly they've overpaid for that set?   People here criticize Apmex for having outrageously high prices, but even Apmex is selling this exact same set (including First Strike designation) for only $3358, just over half the price of GovMint.   $5995 for this set isn't just an overcharge, it's a blatant rip-off.   I'm not begrudging Peter for selling to them - everyone has to take their customers where they can get them, and keep the electricity and the heat on however one can.   And I'm not begrudging capitalism or GovMint's attempts at profit - I'm no James Taggart.   But we should think twice before singing any praises about this company helping the panda coin market.  At the prices they're charging, they don't give an ounce of bat guano about the longevity or health of the panda coin market.
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2016, 06:27:33 AM »
GovMint has always fished whales.

At least for as long as I have been collecting.

I can't remember the last time I visited their web site; at least one year.

They can make you a Low Net Worth individual in short order!!!  N17
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline Honus

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2016, 08:32:22 AM »
Fishing "whales" is different, and I don't think they are.  Their most expensive Chinese coin item is under $9K - that's barely "whale" territory.  I'd bet many of the people on this forum have an annual-buy budget higher than that and/or coins worth more than that.   A real whale hunter is this seller, with multiple coins over $100K:

http://stores.ebay.com/huayinshoucangcoins/

GovMint isn't fishing "whales", they're fishing for people who don't yet know better and likely aren't whales.  And after they've received Peter's beautiful privately-distributed Panda Guide and figured out the mintage and rarity (or complete lack thereof) of the 2016 MS70 set that they just paid $8995 for (a price for which the customer should probably be receiving 2 sets, with money left over), they likely won't ever be Chinese panda collectors again.   And Peter's book ends up in the fireplace, or lying out in the street.  Which is entirely irrelevant to this particular conversation, but relevant to the overall health, integrity, and longevity of the panda market.   And possibly relevant to Peter, as anyone even loosely associated with such a horribly one-sided transaction may be similarly yet unjustly tinged with disrepute.   I'm glad CCL brought it up.   
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2016, 08:57:23 AM »
Fishing "whales" is different, and I don't think they are.  Their most expensive Chinese coin item is under $9K - that's barely "whale" territory.  I'd bet many of the people on this forum have an annual-buy budget higher than that and/or coins worth more than that.   A real whale hunter is this seller, with multiple coins over $100K:

http://stores.ebay.com/huayinshoucangcoins/

GovMint isn't fishing "whales", they're fishing for people who don't yet know better and likely aren't whales.  And after they've received Peter's beautiful privately-distributed Panda Guide and figured out the mintage and rarity (or complete lack thereof) of the 2016 MS70 set that they just paid $8995 for (a price for which the customer should probably be receiving 2 sets, with money left over), they likely won't ever be Chinese panda collectors again.   And Peter's book ends up in the fireplace, or lying out in the street.  Which is entirely irrelevant to this particular conversation, but relevant to the overall health, integrity, and longevity of the panda market.   And possibly relevant to Peter, as anyone even loosely associated with such a horribly one-sided transaction may be similarly yet unjustly tinged with disrepute.   I'm glad CCL brought it up.  

FWIW, considering the number of copies that have been printed, as far as I can tell only a very small percentage have been put up for sale as used books. Maybe they are all ashes in fireplaces? It appears that the recipients are keeping them, in one condition or another. If you are asking if I feel "tinged with disrepute" about giving people accurate information and possibly making them more interested in Panda coins and Chinese culture, the answer is no, quite the contrary.

I can't help but add that if, as you suggest, the result of reading my book and gaining wisdom is that people quit the Panda market in droves, than it is odd that GovMint.com has repeated the distribution two more times after the first mailing.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Honus

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2016, 09:11:32 AM »
FWIW, considering the number of books that have been printed, as far as I can tell only a very small percentage have been put up for sale as used books. Maybe they are all ashes in fireplaces? It appears that the recipients are keeping them, in one condition or another. If you are asking if I feel "tinged with disrepute" about giving people accurate information and possibly making them more interested in Panda coins, the answer is no.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Hi Peter,

I am quite certain you've misunderstood my comment (notice the word "unjustly" in there).  It's not about how you feel, it's about how the buyers of some of GovMint's grossly overpriced panda coins feel.  And the comment was made in response to the notion that GovMint is expanding the panda collecting base.  Which they probably are, with an unhealthy helping of collateral damage along the way.  All you are doing is putting out a book - you have no reason to feel anything but proud.   So no, I wasn't asking if you feel tinged with disrepute.  It's not about you - it's about the buyers of GovMint's coins.  

Of course, I have no idea how those people really feel - I've never paid GovMint $8995 for a $3000 set of coins.  All I can do - all any of us on this forum can do - is try and put ourselves in the shoes of a person who has made that mistake, and try to imagine how that person would feel about continuing their journey toward a collection of panda coins.  And, as it relates to you, how that person would feel about any entity associated with the transaction.  It's very possible that your book would turn out to be the highlight, maybe the only positive aspect, of that transaction and the buyer walks away thinking "I just got completely and utterly ripped off, but at least I now have a fantastic reference guide that will help me make sure I never make that mistake again."   With that outcome, you'd have reason to be even more proud of your book and all the work you've put in.  With that outcome, your book may be the one thing that actually keeps that customer from abandoning the hobby.

I hope that clarifies the point of my comment, and my thinking.

Best,
Eric
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2016, 09:15:50 AM »
Thanks for the kind comment, Eric. I added that last line while you were posting.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Honus

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Re: New Panda Buyers Guide
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2016, 09:35:00 AM »
Thanks for the kind comment, Eric. I added that last line while you were posting.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Sure thing Peter.   I see your comment addition, regarding additional distributions.  That's great for all of us - the more of your books in circulation, the better for the hobby.  I'm glad you understand my point - it's not your book that may cause the hobby to lose collectors, it's the regret that comes from grossly overpaying for something with minimal rarity.  And it would be very unjust for you to suffer from any association with that transaction.   Which isn't to suggest that you should abandon that relationship - on the contrary, we need your books in those customers' hands.   We need you to educate the masses, so to speak.  But from a state-of-the-hobby standpoint, I thought CCL brought up an interesting angle that I was trying to flesh out a bit more.   I may or may not have accomplished that!

Like everyone else, I'm looking forward to your next public printing and wish you good fortune until then.

Eric
Eric Liquori
Anvil Fine Wares
www.anvilfinewares.com