Author Topic: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??  (Read 8857 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2015, 11:58:13 PM »
I don't know if I am in the same situation as PandaQuest so I'll appreciate your input with regards to the two color variants of the 1987 Great Wall medals that I have. One each was bought from reputable eBay sellers. I haven't thought seriously about the possibility of fakes until now. So are both genuine, fake or one is and one isn't? Please assist me here. Thanks!  N8

Please post a higher resolution picture for each coin, both sides.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2015, 12:04:34 AM »
Red copper (purple copper, 紫铜): High purity copper with less than 1% other metals. Example: 1993 5 Yuan copper panda.

Brass (yellow copper, 黄铜): Cooper-Zinc, zinc can be as high as 40%. Example: 1983, 1984 and 1985 1 Yuan proof pandas and Great Wall Jiao coins.

Bronze (Green copper, 青铜): Copper-tin, copper-lead, or copper-aluminum. Example: US Lincoln cents.

White copper (白铜): Copper-nickel (color depends on the copper content). Example: 1980-1986 1 Yuan Great Wall circulated coins and 1984-1990 1 Yuan circulated commemorative coins.

IMO, 1991 medal is made with bronze with a high content of copper. The toning is very similar to Lincoln cents.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2015, 12:15:47 AM »

IMO, 1991 medal is made with bronze with a high content of copper. The toning is very similar to Lincoln cents.


Agreed - and its labelled Bronze, along with Great Wall medals. Medals labelled copper are relatively fewer in number.

A good question is : why are some Great Wall medals a reddish bronze, and some more yellow bronze?

I think I recall Frank translating Rare Medal to say that subtle differences in metal color is one way to differentiate original brass strikes from later restrikes.

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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2015, 12:48:01 AM »
Please post a higher resolution picture for each coin, both sides.

OK. I'll upload a file per post due to size limitations (approx 2.4MB each).
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2015, 12:49:22 AM »
1987 Great Wall Medal Darker Hue Front.
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Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2015, 12:50:21 AM »
1987 Great Wall Medal Darker Hue Back.
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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2015, 12:51:14 AM »
1987 Great Wall Medal Lighter Hue Front.
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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2015, 12:52:33 AM »
1987 Great Wall Medal Lighter Hue Back.
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Offline Hippanda

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2015, 01:04:03 AM »
Lighter hue one details look less crisp:  lighting ? Or ?
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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2015, 01:11:37 AM »
I am uploading the 1985 Great Wall Medal Plum Tree medal for comparison.

Front side:
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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2015, 01:13:16 AM »
1985 Great Wall Medal Plum Tree medal Back.
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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2015, 01:14:43 AM »
Lighter hue one details look less crisp:  lighting ? Or ?

Or Restrike, Or copy???
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Offline PandaCollector

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2015, 07:53:01 AM »
Peter,
         You mention that the copper came first followed by the silver and the gilt. You don't mention the brass version. Can I assume this was just an omission on your part? I still contend that there are two distinct medals that have completely different appearance that are being called bronze by NGC. Do you have any thoughts or comments as why the difference in appearance?

Thanks for your help
Russ

Russ,
I put in a research request as no one had an immediate answer. I'll post when I get some definite information. FWIW, I don't recall a brass version, but for a base metal medal it is entirely possible.
Best wishes,
Peter

Offline SANDAC

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2015, 12:27:24 PM »
1987 Great Wall Medal Darker Hue Front.

The iPad pictures are certainly good enough for coin identification but marginal for fake identification even though your pictures are better than 95% of iPad/iPhone pictures out there.  A DSLR is a better choice for fake study with more precise focus and better resolution to see the surface details.  You probably purchased yours from ggoodluck, if so mine is also purchased from ggoodluck a while ago (although not in as good shape as yours).  The white balance are accurate with calibrated card.

edit:  I don't meant to imply that people should not post questions about fake coin using images from iPad/iPhone.  A well composed iPad/iPhone picture is good, a better composed DSLR picture is even better.  We are blessed with top notch collectors who are willing to take the time to answer questions about fakes.  We should do our best in providing the highest quality images we can to help them. 

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: 1991 Panda Medal Copper or Bronze??
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2015, 02:38:01 PM »
The iPad pictures are certainly good enough for coin identification but marginal for fake identification even though your pictures are better than 95% of iPad/iPhone pictures out there.  A DSLR is a better choice for fake study with more precise focus and better resolution to see the surface details.  You probably purchased yours from ggoodluck, if so mine is also purchased from ggoodluck a while ago (although not in as good shape as yours).  The white balance are accurate with calibrated card.

edit:  I don't meant to imply that people should not post questions about fake coin using images from iPad/iPhone.  A well composed iPad/iPhone picture is good, a better composed DSLR picture is even better.  We are blessed with top notch collectors who are willing to take the time to answer questions about fakes.  We should do our best in providing the highest quality images we can to help them. 

You are right that there cannot be any comparison between the quality of the image produced by handhelds and SLR/DSLR cameras. Even amongst the latter group of cameras "some are more equal than others". The point that I have raised elsewhere on this forum (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11855.0) is that a majority of the population utilizes the omnipresent handhelds for most of their photography needs. It is very convenient and may be the only thing at hand to grab a photo of a rare item including coins. So coin enthusiasts who don't have SLRs of any type can still participate in the coin photo process but build up their skill set. My lighting is still not the best; a work in progress.

Your point is still well taken; I guess I'll have to haul out my clunky camera bag and start taking some REAL photos!  :biggrin:
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