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61
General Discussion / Re: Red spots on gold coin
« Last post by jinsun2000 on April 14, 2018, 02:08:18 PM »
Forgot to add a picture.
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General Discussion / Red spots on gold coin
« Last post by jinsun2000 on April 14, 2018, 01:57:54 PM »
Hi,  I have a couple of red spots on an 1997 1/4 NGC 69 panda.  Does anyone know if I can send the coin to NGC/NCS to get removed
and reholder?  Also would it come back as the same grade or will they have to regrade it.

TIA
63
Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by fwang2450 on April 14, 2018, 01:21:53 PM »
My thoughts are more in line with poconopenn's. Counterfeiters won't invest as much in technology, equipment or other resources as government mints. Or probably they would go bankrupt. So their products will be inferior one way or another. So far the fakes I have run into in modern Chinese coins, including circulating coins and precious metal coins, are readily detectable in high magnification photos. A collector with some basic knowledge of coin striking can detect this eBay listing as a fake because of its obvious weak strike: https://www.ebay.com/itm/China-1980-5-Fen-coin-UNC/302699214021?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649. It is unlikely that the counterfeiter did not notice this problem, but this is the best he could achieve with his limited means, with the hope to fool some new hands.

I have yet to see the kind of legendary fakes feared by old Chinese coin collectors surfacing in modern Chinese coins. With this in mind, I would say that exposing the existing fakes with their characteristics will be helpful to new collectors.
64
Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Selling gold panda and others
« Last post by hopeusw on April 14, 2018, 09:58:12 AM »
Add some more. Updates:

1983 1/10 NGC 69 $240
1983 1/20 NGC 69 $435
1986 1 NGC 69 $1500
1987 1/2 NGC PF69 UC $780
1987 1/2 NGC PF69 UC Star Grade $1000
1987 1 NGC PF69 UC $1600
1987 1/4 NGC PF69 UC $390
1987 1/10 S NGC 69 175
1987 1/20 NGC PF69 UC $220
1988 1/10 NGC PF69 UC $275
1988 1/20 NGC PF69 UC $150
1990 1/10 LD NGC 69 $175
1990 1/20 NGC PF69 UC $155
1991 1/10 SD NGC 69 $250
1992 1/10 SD NGC 69 $220
1993 1/4 NGC 69 $425
1994 1 SD NGC 69 $2350
1995 1/4 LD NGC 69 $3600
1995 1/10 LD NGC 69 $725
1996 1/4 LD NGC 69 $600
1996 1/4 SD NGC 69 $575
1996 1/4 SD NGC 70 $2000 (pop 4 total)
1998 1/10 SD NGC 69 $1200
1998  SD full set NGC 69 $15000
1999 LD plain full set NGC 69 $7500
2000 1/10 frost NGC 69 $260
2000 1 OZ silver frost NGC 69 $240
2001 1/10 NGC 69 $220
2004 1/10 NGC 69 $300
2005 1/10 NGC 69 $250
2017 1g panda OMP*4 $190 or $50 each


I also have
1994 12 OZ silver unicorn NGC 69 for $2900 750mint

Postage cost is $10 (priority mail+signature) or $5 (first class certified mail) to US address based on your choice. International shipping is $64 for express mail or $30 for registered mail (very slow) based on your choice. I accepted bank transfer, check personal paypal.
65
Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by pandamonium on April 14, 2018, 07:17:16 AM »
How much is it to buy a XRF Gun?......   Is that the best way to determine real silver/gold?.....
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Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTS***5 Graded MS70 NGC Gold Panda for sale
« Last post by bender9876 on April 14, 2018, 06:47:06 AM »
Remember this auction ends Monday 16th, 2018 @ 8;30PM EST. Thanks Jim
67
Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by KeepOnTrying! on April 13, 2018, 08:21:43 PM »
Thank you so much for the feedback and the extra ideas. I will prepare some videos with the direct comparison between real and fake. And I will also keep thinking about Peter's position, which I can totally understand.

But to be honest, I assumed that the counterfeits in my videos are no real news to the other counterfeiters, while the regular collector is not yet trained in the "pattern recognition" of typical fake Pandas.

I myself learned a lot from the comparative images that Peter put up on "pandacollector.com" years ago and his work actually helped me detecting some fakes that I was about to buy, so in the end the money was invested in some genuine stuff :-)

I believe that the general idea here is that it is good to educate the public about counterfeit coinage. The task is how to do it without giving away too many secrets to the counterfeiters. I am sure that from your experience you can formulate general rules to guide the naive. Certain general features of counterfeit coins as highlighted by SANDAC can be a good starting point especially if you can demonstrate them with the suggested side by side comparisons. Ultimately you will determine how best to use your skills to help other collectors. Thanks and best of wishes.
68
Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by bullionblog.eu on April 13, 2018, 05:34:55 PM »
Thank you so much for the feedback and the extra ideas. I will prepare some videos with the direct comparison between real and fake. And I will also keep thinking about Peter's position, which I can totally understand.

But to be honest, I assumed that the counterfeits in my videos are no real news to the other counterfeiters, while the regular collector is not yet trained in the "pattern recognition" of typical fake Pandas.

I myself learned a lot from the comparative images that Peter put up on "pandacollector.com" years ago and his work actually helped me detecting some fakes that I was about to buy, so in the end the money was invested in some genuine stuff :-)
69
Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by poconopenn on April 13, 2018, 05:25:04 PM »
Counterfeiters have to consider the cost factor in making fake coin. High quality fake requires significant investment in equipment plus the cost of original genuine coin. During mid-2000, counterfeiters used one design of temple for all different dates of silver panda to save money. They had no idea that temple design is different with different dates. To this day, those earlier fakes are still in the market place. There is a limitation for counterfeiter to make a high quality fake. Chinese counterfeiters have spent more than 20 years to copy Morgan dollars and Indian cents, but those fakes still can be detected by most collectors, simply because collectors have gained the knowledge by watching the video, reading the books, such as PCGS’s “Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection” and visiting various forum discussions.
 
Practically, every MCC have fake one in the market place, especially, commemorative sets and lunars. Usually, they show up within several days after China Mint issued those coins. Counterfeit is always an issue for collectors, but has not stop collector to continue collecting.

The following thread provides side-by-side pictures of genuine vs. fake silver pandas from 1983 to 2014.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=10994.0

bullionblog.eu

Nicely done. It clearly shows the rough surface of fake coin. Perhaps, you can add genuine coin in your video to show the surface differences for new collectors. They need to be educated as you suggested. 

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Modern Chinese Coins / Re: Videos of Fake Panda Coins - What do you think?
« Last post by SANDAC on April 13, 2018, 05:14:26 PM »
Peter's excellent comment notwithstanding, I think you should continue to make videos of fakes.  This is because you are not pointing out specific features of a fake (the specific "diagnostics" that counterfeiters can learn & correct), but the general impression of a coin.  A well focus, zoomed in video of a coin that rotates slowly while lights & shades plays over its surface is an excellent way of getting impression of the coin.  Commentary of specific flaws are unnecessary.  This is how we looked over a coin and this is how a grader looks over a coin.  The "Achilles heel" of counterfeit coins is that they don't have the original die.  They have to make a die from the existing coin therefore suffered further erosion of details due to the two extra steps.  The lost of details and sharpness of features are immediately obvious when you examine the coin closely while rotating it over light.  This is what your video is showing.  In this respect, a video is superior to a super detailed high-resoultion photograph. 

Very instructive, keep up the good work!
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