Chinese Coins Forum

Features => Modern Chinese Coins => Chinese Panda Coins => Topic started by: Glengary on March 02, 2013, 03:35:02 AM

Title: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Glengary on March 02, 2013, 03:35:02 AM
In the last week or so, we've received reports from a few different reliable sources that MCM had sent a bulk submission- actually a multitude of 'Monster Boxes'-  of 2001-D 'Small D' S10Y Pandas to NGC for grading.  Has anyone else heard anything like this...?

To me, this isn't all that surprising... But If this turns out to be the case, that's going to pretty much devalue this coin.  Yeah...? 
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Glengary on March 02, 2013, 04:23:08 AM
Disregard...   I guess the bulk submission was for various dates.  My mistake.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: pandamonium on March 02, 2013, 08:42:43 AM
How many did they submit and which dates?......
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: silverstar1 on March 02, 2013, 05:54:49 PM
Any thing is possible but I dont believe this for a second. One thing is for sure though if MCM does get their hands on any large quantity of Chinese coins they will probably be instantly devalued.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 02, 2013, 08:48:27 PM
2001 there where no monster boxes:)
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 02, 2013, 08:55:32 PM
just checked e bay no hoard yet, 3 coins,just the same gentleman from continental coin selling his off slowly ,i did note his prices are up
400
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 05, 2013, 01:38:06 PM
I don't believe this for a second
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 05, 2013, 02:00:31 PM
I don't believe this for a second
Don't worry about it. These are rumours perpetuated by people who do not have the small "D" and would like to see prices fall so that they can pick one up for themselves.
 N27
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 05, 2013, 03:51:36 PM
Usually misinformation is started by people who do have a "small D," if ya know what I mean ;)

Ok, ok, family forum.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 05, 2013, 04:18:21 PM
Silverfever As Andrew Jackson once said "facts are pretty stubborn":) China has been turned upside down it,s pockets have been turned inside out :) by every major dealer in every major coin market , guess what no small d, everyone is looking, and at approaching $1000 per ms69 and going higher IMHO do you see any for sale?? this is not rumor just Stone cold fact....... maybe there is a hoard out there but no one has found it yet :) because the only people selling these coins  where the original few that where lucky to stumble into them ............
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 05, 2013, 04:32:05 PM
Usually misinformation is started by people who do have a "small D," if ya know what I mean ;)

Ok, ok, family forum.

With your innuendo you seem very obbssessed  with certain parts of the male anatomy...

 :001_rolleyes:
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 05, 2013, 04:33:49 PM
Silverfever As Andrew Jackson once said "facts are pretty stubborn":) China has been turned upside down it,s pockets have been turned inside out :) by every major dealer in every major coin market , guess what no small d, everyone is looking, and at approaching $1000 per ms69 and going higher IMHO do you see any for sale?? this is not rumor just Stone cold fact....... maybe there is a hoard out there but no one has found it yet :) because the only people selling these coins  where the original few that where lucky to stumble into them ............

Very true.  :thumbup1:
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 06, 2013, 01:15:44 AM
Silverfever....I like your honesty
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 06, 2013, 06:29:32 PM
Silverfever....I like your honesty

Unfortunately some here do not like it. Especially if you don't pursue the same agenda as them.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 06, 2013, 06:44:46 PM
Unfortunately some here do not like it. Especially if you don't pursue the same agenda as them.
You must remember that there is a difference between giving an 'honest' opinion and stating an 'honest' fact. I think some members may get frustrated by the way you state your opinion as if it were factual. I am not one of those members. I enjoy hearing both sides of the argument because it keeps me grounded.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 06, 2013, 06:48:45 PM
Good to know.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 06, 2013, 11:47:38 PM
You must remember that there is a difference between giving an 'honest' opinion and stating an 'honest' fact. I think some members may get frustrated by the way you state your opinion as if it were factual. I am not one of those members. I enjoy hearing both sides of the argument because it keeps me grounded.

You must admit that this whole discussion started off with a rumour which turned out to be false.  So there are no facts here.
I agree with Silverfever that there is too much manipulation going on ...and not enough facts as we all wish there were.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 07, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
Agreed
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: SANDAC on March 07, 2013, 01:39:07 AM
Weekly growth of the 2001D since Dec 1 2012 when varieties were recognized.  Still too early to tell, yet I'm surprised at the rolling off of the "small D" population.  I'm expecting it to reach 60-70 quickly before flattening out.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 07, 2013, 01:57:59 AM
Thank you Sandac
I like these types of facts
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 07, 2013, 05:53:07 AM
Hehe, there should be my own submission somewhere on this curve. I got an MS70 by the way  N16
I'll post pictures when that bear gets back home.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 07, 2013, 06:11:29 AM
WOW!!!  CONGRATS N16!!!!!
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 07, 2013, 06:14:30 AM
Weekly growth of the 2001D since Dec 1 2012 when varieties were recognized.  Still too early to tell, yet I'm surprised at the rolling off of the "small D" population.  I'm expecting it to reach 60-70 quickly before flattening out.
THANKS !
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 07, 2013, 06:32:20 AM
Hehe, there should be my own submission somewhere on this curve. I got an MS70 by the way  N16
I'll post pictures when that bear gets back home
Hehe, there should be my own submission somewhere on this curve. I got an MS70 by the way  N16
I'll post pictures when that bear gets back home.

Are you looking to sell your ms70?  if so at what price?
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 07, 2013, 07:13:05 AM
Are you looking to sell your MS70?
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 07, 2013, 10:05:11 AM
Not sure, I may keep it. It seems there is only 3 (yours, and some previously graded without the variety label), this is quite a rare coin.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 07, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
NGC pop shows 2.   Where is the 3rd one?
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 07, 2013, 12:31:11 PM
NGC pop shows 2.   Where is the 3rd one?
I believe the other 1 has the regular variety label according to Dragon$
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 07, 2013, 12:33:49 PM
Hard to believe that NGC would not put the variety ....  sounds a little strange... but maybe...   so that make 2 for certain....maybe 3
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: Silverfever on March 07, 2013, 12:40:56 PM
Probably graded before the small D was recognized.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 07, 2013, 02:41:41 PM
The third MS70 was discovered by SANDAC in the long thread about 2001-D pandas. The certificate numbers are;
- 2779181-019 (unlabeled variety)
- 3692018-018 (geoxxx)
I'll post mine as soon as it'll find its way home ;)
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 07, 2013, 02:56:47 PM
SANDAC > did you kept a tally of the existing unlabeled small-D population? From the curve, the 2001 Small D (小弟 ?) represented about 20% of the submissions since December 1st, but it would be interesting to see what was the proportion before the variety was known.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: SANDAC on March 07, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
The third MS70 was discovered by SANDAC in the long thread about 2001-D pandas. The certificate numbers are;
- 2779181-019 (unlabeled variety)
It is radderlee who told me of the 2779181-019.  I found 2 more unattributed small-D, 2780136-046 &2780136-047, the other 10 unattributed small-D were jc8..8, 2780533-021 to -30.  When NBM first broached the topic of small-D on Silverstacker (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.msg43096#msg43096), I started to search for other unattributed small-D.  I actually did that search twice because there were a number of duplicates in my original database.  I removed the duplicates and automated the data entries and searched a total of 667 2001D S10Y and I can only find two (2780136-046 &2780136-047).  Radderlee provided the third one, and we already know about the 10x unattributed small-D from jc8..8.

The bottom line:  There are 13 unattributed small-D out of 667 searched, about 1 in 50.  The population of unattributed 2001D is 1216, so there maybe 10 more unattributed small-D out there.

Edit: My Statistics teacher would be horrified of my analysis.  I think he'll say the 10x by jc8..8 and one provided by radderlee are already known and should be removed, so I actually only found 2 out of 656 samples and project that ratio to the 1216 total population yields two more.  That means the expected total unattributed small-D is 15.  Be that as it may, 15 or 23 out of 1216 are quite rare.
 
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 07, 2013, 06:08:58 PM
It is radderlee who told me of the 2779181-019.  I found 2 more unattributed small-D, 2780136-046 &2780136-047, the other 10 unattributed small-D were jc8..8, 2780533-021 to -30.  When NBM first broached the topic of small-D on Silverstacker (http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.msg43096#msg43096), I started to search for other unattributed small-D.  I actually did that search twice because there were a number of duplicates in my original database.  I removed the duplicates and automated the data entries and searched a total of 667 2001D S10Y and I can only find two (2780136-046 &2780136-047).  Radderlee provided the third one, and we already know about the 10x unattributed small-D from jc8..8.

The bottom line:  There are 13 unattributed small-D out of 667 searched, about 1 in 50.  The population of unattributed 2001D is 1216, so there maybe 10 more unattributed small-D out there.
 

Hi Sandac ,just to keep the record straight, 4 of those 10  unattributed I held where sent to NCS for conservation and relabeling,and they all came back ms69   ,so the census of correctly labelled coins includes those 4
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 09, 2013, 04:05:04 AM
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=2782326-001  N16
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: geoxxx on March 09, 2013, 06:54:45 AM
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=2782326-001  N16

Beautiful coin.  My favorite of all Pandas
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: SANDAC on March 09, 2013, 10:27:17 AM
http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/CertResults.aspx?CertNumber=2782326-001  N16
Beautiful, congratulation!  You only have 4 small-D?

Edit:  4 small-D is plenty, I just thought you have even more.
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: jc888888888 on March 09, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
 :blush: :drool: I Graded 1 sheet sold some coins as is: a few lucky folks got small d as regular d:)  I had 4 left from that original sheet I graded , and I conserved them and relabeled, I know where all coins that are for sale currently came from except for the gentleman (dragondollar I believe his handle is) who just got the 70, this original source had 12 or 13 sheets , I believe less than 150 coins currently have been found , I do have a sheet untouched put away  ,and am not currently selling :) , so there you go............. maybe there is a 70 in that sheet:) N30 
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: dragondollar on March 09, 2013, 01:25:13 PM
Well, a good friend made a generous offer for my sheet of 10 (65,000 RMB). In the end I agreed to sell him 6 for 40,000 and kept the 4 I found the sharpest to get them graded, in a gamble to get a 70...  N1
So now I have only 4, but they are the fittest!  N27
Title: Re: 2001-D 'Sm. D' S10Y
Post by: SANDAC on March 09, 2013, 01:59:07 PM
40,000 RMB for 6 ungraded?  Very generous, indeed.  You also did very well picking out the 70.