Chinese Coins Forum

Features => Modern Chinese Coins => Topic started by: PandaWill on March 07, 2018, 07:27:46 PM

Title: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: PandaWill on March 07, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
hey guys,

We will be selling Panda commemoratives for the SICF and thought you might like to see the designs.  The commemoratives will be available at the show from March 23rd-25th.

There is going to be a 1 oz Gold with a mintage of 50, as well as a 1 oz Silver and a Tri-Metal both with mintages of 500 each.  They all will come with numbered certificates of authenticity, and they have the S mintmark from Shanghai Mint.  There will also be pieforts made with a mintage of 100, but I do not have info on those just yet and cannot presell those.

If anyone here is interested, feel free to call the office and ask for me; I'll offer you a nice discount if you mention you saw this post.  Delivery will be early April.
Thanks!

Will
Panda America
800-472-6327 x230
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 10, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
It has been awhile since chiming in, but when I saw info on show Pandas, I couldn't resist.  Is this a well known conference?  Meaning, do these show pandas do well over the long-term?  It looks like a relatively new coin show?  These pieces look beautiful.  I especially like the gold one.  Am I reading that right?  Mintage 50?  Are these popular pieces?  You would think that 50 medals would sell out quickly, and yet they're still for sale?  There aren't 50 people that can make this a sellout in days if not minutes? Are the current market conditions that bad?  I've been quietly collecting coins over the last few months. I'm on the fence about buying one of the gold pieces.   
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Jens on March 10, 2018, 04:53:06 PM
There aren't 50 people that can make this a sellout in days if not minutes?
50 might seem rare but on the other hand 2500 USD for one ounce of gold isn't exactly a bargain.
I don't know if there are really that many collectors of gold panda medals, there are plenty of medals in cheaper materials to collect like the lunar pandas, nanjing pandas, garden pandas etc.
Those might have higher mintages but some did sell out pretty quick.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: panda on March 10, 2018, 05:59:35 PM
Any discount for COA#44 of the gold medal?
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: PandaCollector on March 10, 2018, 06:22:30 PM
Is this a well known conference?  ...  It looks like a relatively new coin show?  These pieces look beautiful. 

My recollection is that the first year was 2012. Here is photo from the 2012 Singapore show:

(http://www.pandacollector.com/singapore2012_1131.jpg)

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 10, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
I may be missing something, but Jens you reference pieces like Nanjing, garden, lunar - pandas.  What are these?  I've not see these posted under any shows?  Maybe I'm missing something, not sure.  Are they private issued?  Do you have any pictures or details?  Info on what show they were displayed?  Sorry for the stupid questions.  I have seen some medals from china that are issued or sponsored privately, not apart of any show or conference.  I'm not interested in these. I have a limited understanding, but isn't there a big difference between panda medals that are officially sponsored by the conference vs a person creating something on their own?  It would appear that one has a 'story', a history or a memory behind it, and the other does not (it's just something a private individual thought would be a good idea?).  Any insights you can share I'm sure will be helpful to me and others. 

Thank you for the clarification Peter. I'm closer to making a decision to purchase the 1 oz gold piece. It's a beautiful piece, and I like the fact that there are only 50 available. I'll call Will on Monday.

Why would there be a discount for a 44 COA?  If so, I'll take 4. :-))
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: zerox on March 10, 2018, 09:32:35 PM
Please do report back after you call Will on Monday. Interested in how much discount one gets by calling Will. Thanks.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 10, 2018, 09:58:57 PM
44 is an unlucky number to Chinese because the Mandarin word for 4 sounds like the word for death, I believe. It is considered very unlucky.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Jens on March 11, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
I may be missing something, but Jens you reference pieces like Nanjing, garden, lunar - pandas.  What are these?  I've not see these posted under any shows? 

Sorry for the confusion, those aren't show medals.
Here are pictures (i hope it works) of one of the Lunar Panda series (Shenyang mint) and one of the Nanjing Pandas (Nanjing mint). Those are from official mints, i think the garden pandas are from a private mint if i remember correctly but i don't have any of those. Both are privately sponsored series which of course isn't everyone's cup of tea, especially with the recent inflationary release of privately sponsored medals.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 11, 2018, 07:53:49 PM
Thanks for posting the pictures Jens.  And for sharing the info. Very helpful. I’m personally not too keen on private issued medals simply because anyone with an idea, connections and some money can create a series.  And any time there is a lot of something coming to market it cheapens the otherwise valuable rarity of the others? I’ll stick with coin show medals because I know there is a story, history and an ‘official’ approval process to get selected. I’m sure politics and money come into play too. Thanks again for sharing the beautiful pictures. Beautiful art work for sure.

Xerox and Mirk, thanks for the input.  I’ll let you know if I get a discount. I’m not holding my breath. And I’ll take pictures when I get it.

Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 27, 2018, 07:26:21 AM
Hi Will.  How did the show go?  Popular?  Any pictures?  How were the sales of the Panda medals?  I'm a bit surprised that that gold pieces haven't sold out yet - with a mintage of a mere 50?  Perhaps this is a bit of a picture of the state of the market?   Or perhaps a snapshot of the interest of show medals?  Any info you or anyone can share about the Singapore conference would be great.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: PandaCollector on March 27, 2018, 10:59:52 AM
I'm a bit surprised that that gold pieces haven't sold out yet - with a mintage of a mere 50?  Perhaps this is a bit of a picture of the state of the market?

Sometimes the issue is the supply and not the demand.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia  — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 27, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
I was at the Singapore show and the show medals was not so well received.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 27, 2018, 09:13:02 PM
Sometimes the issue is the supply and not the demand.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia  — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

So true!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 27, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
I was at the Singapore show and the show medals was not so well received.

How was the show?  Well attended?  Popular?  Were there any coins or medals that were popular?  Or has the world of crytos taken over?
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 28, 2018, 10:14:14 AM
Yes it was well attended considering the market and the number of years it is in . 4th series rmb is hot.  I was looking for some good gold panda but they are rare.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 28, 2018, 05:54:01 PM
I know the market boomed within minutes of them announcing the planned demonetization of the 4th series banknotes, dealers have waited for a long time
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 28, 2018, 07:23:43 PM
A question that I am becoming to feel to be important is how well are these show medals (and other medals for that matter) being received inside China? Is the average Chinese coin collector interested in these medals, especially those that are developed for overseas sales or are based on oversea themed shows?

My casual perusal of the results of a recent coin auction did not reveal sales of much of what we have out here: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=14184.msg83630#msg83630

Does that mean that there are coins and medals that are more Chinese than others? Do we have access to them out here? Are we being fed with quasi Chinese coinage?

I don’t mean to offend but I am surprised at how different the emphasis seems to be in China. I must confess that I haven’t been paying much attention to these mainland Chinese auctions. Perhaps it is time for me to do so, because they may provide better insight on what the collection pattern is inside China and not what is beginning to look like a make believe China wannabe oversea collection program.

Or is a two-tier MCC system okay?
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 28, 2018, 08:44:26 PM
To be brutally honest I don't know too many keen panda collectors who truly care about the coins in China, bullion investors, speculators and master set owners seem more prevalent unfortunately
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 28, 2018, 09:23:51 PM
There seems to be some bright spots within certain sectors like gold pandas, but generally speaking it appears that most others are not faring too well. Maybe the Cryptos are taking center stage, and for the time being, they are unseating gold and silver collectibles - coins and show medals. From what little I know about the private sponsored series, that market seems to be dead (for the moment?). I'm curious to see what happens at Anaheim, Long Beach, and other important shows, where additional Pandas are introduced. It's a bit unsettling to invest in a show panda like the Singapore 1 oz gold, knowing they can't even sell 50 of them. Thankfully I have a long-term horizon. Thanks for sharing the details. 
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 28, 2018, 09:32:41 PM
I would think that anything that does not belong in a master set is definitely more risky than those that do. The master set market and the mass collector base are different things. The Panda sector currently do not enjoy the same collector enthusiasm of some other sectors, but the master set market could be driven by banks and commodity prices.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: PandaCollector on March 28, 2018, 10:42:08 PM
It's a bit unsettling to invest in a show panda like the Singapore 1 oz gold, knowing they can't even sell 50 of them. 

Just a wild guess, but maybe there weren't 50 to sell? Maybe there weren't 40 to sell. Maybe there weren't 30 to sell. Maybe there weren't....just guessing.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia  — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 29, 2018, 01:04:29 AM
I think there are too many show pandas and commemorative pandas for collectors to follow and some of them are selling at a high premium. These may be a long term play
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 29, 2018, 01:24:37 AM
In my personal opinion they might be more risky than your average key or semi-key 1/2 gold panda needed for master sets
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 29, 2018, 02:10:22 AM
I feel demand for master sets are not as strong as one or two years ago
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 29, 2018, 09:35:01 AM
You don't have to be a master of divination to figure that one out. Prices for gold pandas are low across the board. Gold panda halves have dropped significantly, and that's the barometer.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 29, 2018, 09:49:39 AM
Wonder what will bring demand back. Gold price spike? Hopefully the Chinese economy doesn’t slow down to the point the rich no longer want master sets
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 29, 2018, 01:08:42 PM
Interest in MCC that is based less on making a killing in the transpacific (or even within country) coin trade and more on a genuine fondness of the hobby is an option. I have never believed that the Master set phenomenon has staying power. Just like other "engineered phenomena" it is likely to be transient. Furthermore, it should not be allowed to continue to define/dominate (at least a segment of) MCC collection. Just me thinking loudly!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 29, 2018, 09:38:52 PM
I wonder if the sheer number of coins and medals produced from all the mints around the world has flooded the market with too many choices that people decide to stick with the basics?  I know I can get overwhelmed by all the themes, series, and different style of coins that it paralyzes me from making a decision on what to buy. There are so many options available that I wonder if it is over saturation. The Panda themes/series are so varied that I some times wonder if I've made a mistake buying them.  I've read many times, buy what you like - and I do. However, I also buy with a hope for future price appreciation. There are no guarantees, but perhaps we can look to the past for future predictions.  It's not similar but it does rhyme. 
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Mirkkanen on March 29, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
If you are looking to buy with future price appreciation in mind, then certainly don't buy a Panda medal for two or three times melt value. They've proven to be a bad investment since 2011
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 29, 2018, 11:53:52 PM
Very true I also buy what I like but unfortunately what I like is not what other people like . I was often wondering which panda year between 2011 to 2018 would be a hit in the long term?
 
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 30, 2018, 12:12:41 AM
Buy what you like? I used to subscribe to that point of view until I became wiser: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=13768.msg81843#msg81843
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: aupanda on March 30, 2018, 12:22:42 AM
Compared to other segments that have done well in recent years such as cash coins and vintage silver, it’s fair to say that the panda segment has more investors involved, and less aspects that attract actual collectors such as different provinces and mints, toning and patina etc. However this is an inherent problems and I don’t have solutions to solve them
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 30, 2018, 12:28:19 AM
Very true I also buy what I like but unfortunately what I like is not what other people like . I was often wondering which panda year between 2011 to 2018 would be a hit in the long term?
 

There are many who believe that the post-2010 panda coins are bullion due to their large mintages. However, the early year (pre-2010) panda coins were also regarded initially as bullion until events changed that characterization for many of them. I therefore suspect that some of the newer age releases you referenced may acquire numismatic premium in future. If anyone knows which particular one they won’t tell!

A serial collector is likely to hit some pleasant surprises in future!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: pandamonium on March 30, 2018, 07:17:26 AM
As usual i think all Chinese coins/medals will have significant value sometime in the future.      The experts told me some time ago that the low mint, new issue medals are considered baubles/trinkets.     Too many of them to keep track of.     I was told to focus on early issue.    Peter's valentine heart pandas are a bit different (not a show panda) and great design so i recommend them.    We could be in the time frame for gold to break out, if so expect gold pandas and other gold MCC to see more demand on ebay.      I track 1/20 oz gold Chinese for myself & collector friends.    A few months ago there was a average of 1,000 listings.   It fell to about 300 and now is about 500 listings on ebay......
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: pandamonium on March 30, 2018, 08:14:38 AM
Here is a example of a early year, rare silver medal that sold same day as listed...  very rare to see on ebay...   A OMP sold last yr for about $900 plus but under $1,000....

1980 PF 67 36mm  Shou Xing Longevity   $695  by Chen Jian....         Ebay 152963976690...

Ebay photos of recent sale PF 67 and OMP that sold last yr.    Congrats to buyers of both...

Clark and another ebayer sold a PF 69 each for about $2,000 to $2,500 a few years ago if i remember correctly...
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 30, 2018, 09:39:29 AM
Thanks for posting these pictures @pandamonium. I was tempted to buy it, but when I asked the seller about it, he said someone already nabbed it. Maybe you are right about the early year medals versus the new issues? Did the 69 really sell for 2k? I don't have the newer pieces - not interested. As someone said, there are too many, and it is downright overwhelming to know which ones to choose. A quick search of these private medals over the last couple days shows: expo pandas, garden pandas, nanjing pandas (2 types), temple pandas, treasure pandas, lunar panda (3 types), Trigo pandas...to name a few. And some have 6 - 8 types. Now that is downright overwhelming. Plus when I looked at the Garden Pandas it appears everyone is selling and no one is buying, what gives? Granted there are some beautiful art work on these private issue pandas. However, keeping the investment part of the equation in mind, I'm doubtful if any of these will appreciate in value over the longer-term? This is the main reason I've stayed with early year BU pandas (silver and gold) and mostly early year show medals (not so much modern show medals).

@keepontrying I read your thread about 'buy what you like'. Thank you for sharing your insights. Very helpful and wise words for sure.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 30, 2018, 10:30:15 AM
@pandamonium thanks for the nice medal pictures ,  Chen Jian is the designer of earlier years panda.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: pandamonium on March 31, 2018, 07:18:12 AM
Seng_84,  can you post which pandas Chen Jian designed?      Who designed the Temple of Heaven on reverse?..........
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: pandamonium on March 31, 2018, 07:52:13 AM
Another early year   1981-92 Lunar silver set  OMP  box    bidding at $4,600 today w/ 1 day left    Ebay 152961687332     I know nothing about this set but it must be rare and popular....

Goldmoney   "The Yuan-oil future & gold".         Makes sense, the clock is ticking for us in the West.....
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: Seng_84 on March 31, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
Pandamonium, i know up He design panda from 1982 to 1984 panda. He won  award for his 1983 panda. Temple of heaven is an iconic place in Beijing, but I do not know why they choose it instead of other iconic place.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: GoldenLord on March 31, 2018, 05:01:51 PM
Another early year   1981-92 Lunar silver set  OMP  box    bidding at $4,600 today w/ 1 day left    Ebay 152961687332     I know nothing about this set but it must be rare and popular....

Yes the set is very popular, but its the official set with Yuan denomation, not medals.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on March 31, 2018, 07:52:35 PM
Hi Golden Lord. I also feel that rare coins have much greater potential for price appreciation than medals that may be just as rare. Although, I do wonder what the pricing gains will be for older medals like the one above and others from the Hong Kong, Berlin, ANA shows, and the early year gods from the 80’s? I don’t believe the modern private sponsored medals (private/official mints) will do much in the medium to longer term time horizon. They will be forgotten?
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 31, 2018, 08:26:55 PM
Yes the set is very popular, but its the official set with Yuan denomation, not medals.

Nice pricing for a painstakingly collected set. Kudos to the owner!
Thanks @pandamonium for bringing this to our attention.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: poconopenn on March 31, 2018, 09:18:33 PM
All MCC listed by this seller of 15gm silver lunar set (first series of silver lunar set) are rare. I have not seen 1980 piedfort 1 Yuan Olympic copper 8-coin set listed at eBay for many years.
 
https://www.ebay.com/sch/goldeneyes2016/m.html?item=162967995453&hash=item25f1a6443d%3Ag%3APAsAAOSw4ltaupo1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Disclosure: I do not know this seller and have never done any business with this seller.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on March 31, 2018, 09:30:57 PM
Hi Golden Lord. I also feel that rare coins have much greater potential for price appreciation than medals that may be just as rare. Although, I do wonder what the pricing gains will be for older medals like the one above and others from the Hong Kong, Berlin, ANA shows, and the early year gods from the 80’s? I don’t believe the modern private sponsored medals (private/official mints) will do much in the medium to longer term time horizon. They will be forgotten?

An individualized approach might yield greater dividend when trying to predict winners and losers here. From the little I know there seems to be at least two price spikes in the life of a coin, the early spike fanned more by exuberance (and hype) and a later spike when sustaining value is envisioned.

Again there seems to be a pecking order in this valuation:
Age—New versus Old releases.
Form—Coin versus Medal.
Sponsor—Government versus Non-government (?subdivision Corporate versus Individual sponsor)
Mint: Government versus Private.
The X-Factor—Variable.
Other Factors.

I suspect it is the interplay of such factors that determine how well a coin or medal does.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: greenmile358 on April 01, 2018, 04:52:11 PM
An individualized approach might yield greater dividend when trying to predict winners and losers here. From the little I know there seems to be at least two price spikes in the life of a coin, the early spike fanned more by exuberance (and hype) and a later spike when sustaining value is envisioned.

Again there seems to be a pecking order in this valuation:
Age—New versus Old releases.
Form—Coin versus Medal.
Sponsor—Government versus Non-government (?subdivision Corporate versus Individual sponsor)
Mint: Government versus Private.
The X-Factor—Variable.
Other Factors.

I suspect it is the interplay of such factors that determine how well a coin or medal does.


Why should the type of sponsorship matter as long as a coin or medal is minted by a government mint? Isn't it true that some of the most well-known Chinese coins are privately-sponsored: e.g., show pandas or the early-year silver pandas?
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on April 01, 2018, 06:09:28 PM

Why should the type of sponsorship matter as long as a coin or medal is minted by a government mint? Isn't it true that some of the most well-known Chinese coins are privately-sponsored: e.g., show pandas or the early-year silver pandas?

Welcome to the forum!

Being produced in a government Mint does not cancel out the influence of the type of sponsor.

A government commissioned or sponsored coin or medal is more likely to be regarded as a reliable piece for collection compared to privately sponsored equivalents. This is already borne out by contemporary experience both in China and the overseas MCC collector community.

The government assures constancy and already has a proven track record. The government is more likely to be more answerable to the collector than the private sponsor. You can, for example, make a “freedom of information” request to government mints (at least in some western countries) and certain requested information is made available to you. A private coin/medal sponsor is not under such legal obligation to release information on mintage related matters.

We have also come across certain private sponsors whose professional behavior left a lot to be desired thereby impinging on new and established collectors’ confidence in their wares.

Erratic private sponsor behavior has already been demonstrated on more than one occasion. For example, there is a sponsor who suddenly undercut the value of earlier sponsored medals by dropping their prices after some years. You wouldn’t go near his products a second time, would you?!

There are quite a lot of other reasons but these suffice for now. But it is not a controversial fact that collectors tend to be more trusting of government commissioned coins than those from private entrepreneurs.

The reputation and collectibility of some early year privately sponsored medals have benefitted from the passage of time, which one of the factors I listed. But a lot more fell by the wayside!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: greenmile358 on April 01, 2018, 07:14:12 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Being produced in a government Mint does not cancel out the influence of the type of sponsor.

A government commissioned or sponsored coin or medal is more likely to be regarded as a reliable piece for collection compared to privately sponsored equivalents. This is already borne out by contemporary experience both in China and the overseas MCC collector community.

The government assures constancy and already has a proven track record. The government is more likely to be more answerable to the collector than the private sponsor. You can, for example, make a “freedom of information” request to government mints (at least in some western countries) and certain requested information is made available to you. A private coin/medal sponsor is not under such legal obligation to release information on mintage related matters.

We have also come across certain private sponsors whose professional behavior left a lot to be desired thereby impinging on new and established collectors’ confidence in their wares.

Erratic private sponsor behavior has already been demonstrated on more than one occasion. For example, there is a sponsor who suddenly undercut the value of earlier sponsored medals by dropping their prices after some years. You wouldn’t go near his products a second time, would you?!

There are quite a lot of other reasons but these suffice for now. But it is not a controversial fact that collectors tend to be more trusting of government commissioned coins than those from private entrepreneurs.

The reputation and collectibility of some early year privately sponsored medals have benefitted from the passage of time, which one of the factors I listed. But a lot more fell by the wayside!


Thanks for the perspective--you make some good points here. Clearly, the reputation of the sponsor should and does matter for an issue's value and desirability. However, it does seem indiscriminate to discount and avoid all privately-sponsored government-mint products, as some collectors seem to be doing nowadays. After all, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Martin Weiss was the private sponsor of the earliest silver pandas (1983-1985) and other notable issues.
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on April 01, 2018, 08:43:25 PM

Thanks for the perspective--you make some good points here. Clearly, the reputation of the sponsor should and does matter for an issue's value and desirability. However, it does seem indiscriminate to discount and avoid all privately-sponsored government-mint products, as some collectors seem to be doing nowadays. After all, if I'm not mistaken, Mr. Martin Weiss was the private sponsor of the earliest silver pandas (1983-1985) and other notable issues.

Coin collection should be a voluntary activity. Interestingly many adult collectors don’t seem to be allowed the free will to make informed decisions hence the backlash that routinely happens when they become wiser.

As I learn more about coin collection I keep on refining weighting factors that help me in deciding which coin or medal to add to my collection and which one to pass. I listed some of those factors above.

I don’t have enough historical information on Mr. Weiss to respond accurately to your comment. All I know is that time has validated his cooperative ventures with the Chinese Mints, his vision and support for the MCC program. Again, note that weighting factor, time (age), in operation here. He has been tested by time!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeyDate1/2ozPandas on April 02, 2018, 03:13:15 AM
Sponsor is very important.  Let me give you two example:

1) Sponsor A mints 1000 medals and sell 500 to collectors, dealers and distributors and keeps 500 to slowly bleed out as prices rise.  This medal will spike early because, but over time it won't spike because a overhang of inventory will keep prices muted.

2) Sponsor B mints 1000 medals, sells 1 at a time to collectors at very affordable price, the collector base is wide and spread out over multiple cities and countries.  This medal will be flat at the start and over time as more people learn about it will rise in price as it is very difficult to find collectors that are willing to sell as most have gifted or put away the medal for long time.

When a medal spikes early it often implies Sponsor A and it is wise to avoid.  When you see medal still at issue price it often implies Sponsor B and it might we worth buying if the design is good, government mint and trustworthy sponsor. 
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on April 02, 2018, 11:31:29 AM
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: KeepOnTrying! on April 02, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 

The essence of some of the discussions here and elsewhere is that collectors must make personal decisions on what to collect and not rely on other’s recommendations to avoid regret. Experienced members have always cautioned on patience and taking time to learn all there is about a coin or medal (or in this case a medal series) before deciding on what to do. There are quite a number of resources to consult and you also sound experienced in coin collection. I hope you will make a decision that is most suitable for you.

Best wishes!

PS: This has not been entirely a discussion about the merits of coins versus medals. It will be quite misguided for someone to eschew medals because of what they think they have read here. There are potentially some great finds out there for the astute individual to collect. The task is to find such collector pieces. The joys and tribulation of coin collection!
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: pandamonium on April 07, 2018, 09:02:48 PM
Some really good advice on this thread. Thank you for taking the time to share with everyone.  It has helped me put the brakes on pieces I was going to buy.  On the medals side, I was considering the Classical Garden series.  I know I'm late to the series, and maybe the price appreciation has already happened, but I wonder if this is a good series to collect? 
I wonder if most on this site purchase and collect coins or both coins and medals.  My initial observation is that most are collectors of coins, with a yuan face value, with a minority focused on just medals as defined above. 




Collectingcoins, i get emails and other chatter so will ask you straight up.    Do you know a former member here named Bob Arsenault or barsenault?      He left this forum and badon's too.     He had some serious problems w/ other coin collectors/dealers and is now well known by this small community.     Many avoid him now.    Instead of behind the back chatter i think it is best to ask you as some tell me that you could be barsenault.     Any truth to this or just a silly rumor? ........
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: PandaCollector on May 01, 2018, 03:59:15 PM
I'm a bit surprised that that gold pieces haven't sold out yet - with a mintage of a mere 50? 

For the record, these did sell out after they became available.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com
Title: Re: New Panda Commemoratives for the 2018 Singapore International Coin Fair
Post by: collectingcoins on May 03, 2018, 09:19:04 AM
Hi PandaCollector. Indeed it appears they did sell out.  It is a pretty looking panda for sure. I haven't written in awhile, been busy attending family matters. I've been buying a slew of gold, can't beat these prices.  Good day.