Author Topic: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015  (Read 5641 times)

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Offline poconopenn

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Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« on: November 16, 2015, 11:15:18 PM »
http://www.ichengxuan.com/

Beijing ChengXuan is one of the largest auction house inside China. The major auction items are ceramics, porcelains and paintings. There is section covering milled coins and medals. Majority coins in the auction are Imperial and Republic coins. Several proof and mint sets (1979-1986) and very rare circulated copper and aluminum fen coins are included. There are three PM MCC only and no panda. Here are some highlights.

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99835/ (1903, Kuang Hsu Yuan Pao Silver Pattern Coin, Hupoo, Tientsin Mint, PCGS SP58, Rare, Est. value: RMB 800,000-1,200,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99850/ (1911, Tai Ching Silver Pattern Coin, 1 Yuan, Unissued, Rare, PCGS SP63, Est. value: RMB 1,680,000-2,000,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99959/  (1921, Hsu Shih-Chang Commemorative Silver Coin, UNC, Est. value: RMB20,000-25,000. Gold version was discussed here recently: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11894.msg69453;topicseen#msg69453)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100111/ (1896, Kuang Hsu Yuan Pao Silver Coin, 7.2 Mace, Hupeh Province, Benshen, PCGS VF35, Very Rare, Est. value: RMB 800,000-1,000,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100253/ (1928, Brass Pattern Coin, 100 Cash, Honan Province, Collection of Ma Dingxiang, UNC, Est. value: RMB 500,000-600,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100451/ (1928, Kweichow Silver auto Coin, minted by Guizhou Provincial Government, NGC XF45, Est. value: RMB 130,000-150,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100452/ (1949, Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Kweichow Province, Rare, PCGS XF40, Est. Value: RMB 220,000-250,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99962/ (1934, China Soviet Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Szechuan and Shensi Provinces, XF, Est. value: RMB 10,000-20,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99964/ (1932, China Soviet Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Rare, NGC F15, Est. value: RMB 200,000-250,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100020/ (1986, The People's Bank of China, Circulating Coins and Copper Medal of Year of The Tiger, Total 8 pcs., Mintage: 660 Sets, UNC, Est. value: RMB60,000-100,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100031/ (1991, Circulating Coins, 10 Cents, 50 Cents, 1 Yuan, Specimen, a complete set of 3 pcs., NGC MS65 X 2, MS66 X 1, Est. value: RMB15,000-20,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100044/ (1969, The People's Bank of China, Aluminum Coins, 2nd Print, Specimen, 1 Cent, 2 Cents, 5 Cents, Total 3 pcs., PCGS SP64, SP62, SP64, Est. value: RMB 200,000-300,000)

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 02:29:31 PM »
The auction results, IMO, are reasonable. It appears that money is available for rare coins, but not the common one. The rare PRC circulated coins are strong.

Here are the final price for the lots mentioned above.


http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99835/ (1903, Kuang Hsu Yuan Pao Silver Pattern Coin, Hupoo, Tientsin Mint, PCGS SP58, Rare, Est. value: RMB 800,000-1,200,000)
Final price: RMB 966,000 (US$152,125)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99850/ (1911, Tai Ching Silver Pattern Coin, 1 Yuan, Unissued, Rare, PCGS SP63, Est. value: RMB 1,680,000-2,000,000)
Final price: Unsold.

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99959/  (1921, Hsu Shih-Chang Commemorative Silver Coin, UNC, Est. value: RMB 20,000-25,000. Gold version was discussed here recently: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=11894.msg69453;topicseen#msg69453)
Final price: RMB 43,700 (US$6,880)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100111/ (1896, Kuang Hsu Yuan Pao Silver Coin, 7.2 Mace, Hupeh Province, Benshen, PCGS VF35, Very Rare, Est. value: RMB 800,000-1,000,000)
Final price: RMB 920,000 (US$144,880)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100253/ (1928, Brass Pattern Coin, 100 Cash, Honan Province, Collection of Ma Dingxiang, UNC, Est. value: RMB 500,000-600,000)
Final price: RMB 644,000 (US$101,420)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100451/ (1928, Kweichow Silver auto Coin, minted by Guizhou Provincial Government, NGC XF45, Est. value: RMB 130,000-150,000)
Final price: unsold

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100452/ (1949, Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Kweichow Province, Rare, PCGS XF40, Est. Value: RMB 220,000-250,000)
Final price: RMB 299,000 (US$47,085)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99962/ (1934, China Soviet Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Szechuan and Shensi Provinces, XF, Est. value: RMB 10,000-20,000)
Final price: RMB 23,000 (US$3620)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/99964/ (1932, China Soviet Silver Coin, 1 Dollar, Rare, NGC F15, Est. value: RMB 200,000-250,000)
Final price: Unsold

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100020/ (1986, The People's Bank of China, Circulating Coins and Copper Medal of Year of The Tiger, Total 8 pcs., Mintage: 660 Sets, UNC, Est. value: RMB60,000-100,000)
Final price: RMB 149,000 (US23,455)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100031/ (1991, Circulating Coins, 10 Cents, 50 Cents, 1 Yuan, Specimen, a complete set of 3 pcs., NGC MS65 X 2, MS66 X 1, Est. value: RMB15,000-20,000)
Final price: RMB 19,950 (US$3,140)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100044/ (1969, The People's Bank of China, Aluminum Coins, 2nd Print, Specimen, 1 Cent, 2 Cents, 5 Cents, Total 3 pcs., PCGS SP64, SP62, SP64, Est. value: RMB 200,000-300,000)
Final price: RMB 851,000 (US$134,000)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100043/ (1999, Circulating Commemorative Coins of The Establishment of the Macao Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China, a set of 2 pcs., 10 Yuan, Mintage: 3,000 Sets, PCGS SP67, SP66, Est. value: RMB 20,000-25,000)
Final price: RMB 70,150 (US$11,050)

http://www.ichengxuan.com/antiques/100019/ (1985, The People's Bank of China, Circulating Coins and Copper Medal of Year of The Ox, Total 8 pcs., Mintage: 4825 Sets, UNC, Est. Value: RMB 10,000-15,000)
Final price: RMB 18,400 (US$2,900)




Offline aragog

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 03:35:31 PM »
thanks for sharing  this interesting  results. It seems that the market have  consolidated already. I fall in love with the probe fen coins, have never saw before.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 09:01:54 PM »
I am a bit confused about their exporting policy. The disclaimer under the auction title says:

In accordance with the relevant rules of the People's Republic of China, export clearance will not be granted for Lots that marked with "*".

However, some coins from the same category are marked with * while others are not. The random example below shows two identical coins (different grade) - one has *, second one does not.

Am I missing something?

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 11:33:41 PM »
I am a bit confused about their exporting policy. The disclaimer under the auction title says:

In accordance with the relevant rules of the People's Republic of China, export clearance will not be granted for Lots that marked with "*".

However, some coins from the same category are marked with * while others are not. The random example below shows two identical coins (different grade) - one has *, second one does not.

Am I missing something?
Just speculating, perhaps, the no “*” item is cosigned by person outside the China and the item is still outside China. ChengXuan has been very active in looking for consignment of Chinese artworks in US during last few years.

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
Your speculation makes sense as auction houses in China don't normally ship coins outside the mainland.

What goes to China stays in China. Imagine what this will do to the supply of Chinese coins and art in the west in the next decade or two...

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 07:38:07 AM »
I think stopping export of MCCM from China to the West could happen quickly.    Have discussed/warned this w/ a group of new collectors for about 2 yrs.   It makes sense that China keeps the best of their money at home and the recent Pricepedia mentions the huge domestic demand of China while exports is a small amount.    At some point the dealers in China will not be allowed to ship to the West.    This could happen sooner than later......

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 08:02:38 AM »
And by that time the West would have found an alternative source for lovely culturally significant coins and medals. The world never exists in a vacuum. Closure of the Chinese coin market to the rest of the world (which is short sighted), and this vacuuming of MCC towards China and never to re-emerge, is anti commerce and means opening up of other opportunities. As is already happening many countries are producing for example lunar and zodiac themed coins. It will not be difficult for other countries to start making other competing products and that could even happen irrespective of China stopping this one way movement of MCC.
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Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2015, 03:14:05 AM »
I do not think that the supply of modern Chinese coins is in any danger from export restrictions. It is my understanding that the restriction on the export of modern coins from China is only related to their precious metal content. "Precious metals such as gold and silver and articles made thereof," are subject to restrictions, but are not prohibited.

Small quantities of several ounces of gold (like a set of Pandas) do not seem to draw attention from customs inspectors or security if they are personally carried out. I was recently told that up to six ounces of gold is allowed, but haven't confirmed that yet. I once was waved through Chinese customs with 200 oz. of Panda silver coins.

On the other hand, I once had to explain to a customs inspector that a kilo medal in my carryon was gold plated, not gold. The mintage of this medal is three and I was worried that the inspector would directly test to see if it was plated, but eventually he relented and let it pass.

Ancient coins and relics are prohibited from export from China, definitely.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com
 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2015, 07:11:52 AM »
That is good news Peter.    It would be heartbreaking if MCCM were in danger of export restrictions.  N45 .......

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2015, 08:07:04 AM »
My experience also ,last summer I left Shantou with 4 gold proof sets 1.9 oz each  I had a receipt from a coin shop ,I got the obligatory 15 second stare at customs:)  but he just waved his hand so I packed them back up and put them back in my carry on backpack and off I went..

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 08:18:20 AM »
A China based online auction that I came across many months ago, for the 1985 1Yuan Brass panda coin, explicitly stated that it was not for shipment outside China. Other Chinese coins that were on auction did not have that same shipment restriction. Regular mintage coins may not be subject to restrictions, at present.
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Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2015, 01:14:04 PM »
A China based online auction that I came across many months ago, for the 1985 1Yuan Brass panda coin, explicitly stated that it was not for shipment outside China. Other Chinese coins that were on auction did not have that same shipment restriction. Regular mintage coins may not be subject to restrictions, at present.

That must be due to a decision by the auction house, or maybe the consignor. Perhaps the high estimated value was an insurance issue? I am not aware of any national policy or regulation that restricts the export of modern base metal coins.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2015, 01:20:25 PM »
When you purchase anything for export purpose in China, the buyer has to pay the tax at the time of purchase. The tax is refundable after showing the evidence of the goods have left the country. For industrial goods, this is relatively easy and usually is handled by an Import/Export broker. For foreign MCC distributors, the paper work is handled by China Gold Coin Inc. However, for individual transactions, such as item won from auction house, most sellers do not want to involve in paper work or dealing with authority. It is my understanding that all MCC can be taken out of China, as long as you have the proper documents. MCC is not in the list of restrict items.    

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Beijing ChengXuan Auction Nov. 18, 2015
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 01:56:10 PM »
That must be due to a decision by the auction house, or maybe the consignor. Perhaps the high estimated value was an insurance issue? I am not aware of any national policy or regulation that restricts the export of modern base metal coins.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

When you purchase anything for export purpose in China, the buyer has to pay the tax at the time of purchase. The tax is refundable after showing the evidence of the goods have left the country. For industrial goods, this is relatively easy and usually is handled by an Import/Export broker. For foreign MCC distributors, the paper work is handled by China Gold Coin Inc. However, for individual transactions, such as item won from auction house, most sellers do not want to involve in paper work or dealing with authority. It is my understanding that all MCC can be taken out of China, as long as you have the proper documents. MCC is not in the list of restrict items.    

Thanks for clarification. Important to know these things because next time I visit China I am not going to be coming back light!  N25
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!