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I contacted a NGC employee and they are sticking to their grading conclusions....I do not own any 2001 small D silver pandas, just curious to hear NGC's side of the coin.......

On another note, i get contacts from several collectors about many Chinese that could be fakes.    Graders have the gun that can determine metal content, micro scopes and who knows what else.     Graders have made mistakes but i side w/ them as their technology gets better and they get wiser.    For the most part NGC does a lot of research before grading so for me i am comfortable w/ them......
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General Discussion / Re: Fraudulent Buyer from Texas
« Last post by pandamonium on Today at 07:22:31 PM »
I will forward the links too as i recognize a few names and areas where my friends live.       Fake dealers, fake coins, no one so many react quickly......
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Looking for 1 piece 1998 1/20 SD sealed gold panda perfect condition $1,100, 10 x 2000 1/10 gold pandas double sealed $200 each. Can buy other grades / conditions depending on price.

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General Discussion / Re: Fraudulent Buyer from Texas
« Last post by bonke on Today at 10:56:45 AM »
Arif

Thanks for the links.  I opened the first link and searched for the name of a company which cheated my elderly cousin (concerning the purchase and non-delivery of 500 circulated Morgan dollars in 2010).  It was nice to see that the person running this company is incarcerated with a release date in 2025.  Excellent information!

Mark Bonke
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General Discussion / Re: Fraudulent Buyer from Texas
« Last post by KeyDate1/2ozPandas on Today at 09:42:20 AM »
For those interested in numerous ways dealers have stolen from collectors and investors should take time to read through the following links so they can identify the warning signs.

http://about.ag/goldsilverfraud.htm
http://bulliondealerdata.com/tips.htm
http://www.startribune.com/may-9-2011-ex-cons-make-a-killing-in-coins/121475124/

I am considering starting a blog to summarize what I have learned over the years to help others make good decisions when buying and selling.  Just have to figure out how to add it to the website.
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I find it difficult to fathom that the 2001 small D would be fake after all of the PCGS and NGC certifications.
Until we are absolutely certain, I think the title of this feed should be changed before people start making unfounded claims.
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Thank you SANDAC for your extensive research and time devoted to a coin that has received much scrutiny of the years.
It was interesting reading through the old link posted from 2011. Few things stand out to me.

Aside from the boasting that goes on when one has something others don't know much about.  The early holders of this coin did appear somewhat forthcoming in providing information and pictures about this coin.
Reference in these posts are made to Mr. Peter Anthony's first addition of Gold & silver Panda coins buyer guide the size difference of the D. Perhaps Mr. Peter can remember if his pictures are from his stock and when they may have been photographed?

This quote here: Quote from: poconopenn on December 09, 2012, 05:08:38 PM

IMO, both NGC graded 2001 D small D coins are genuine.  With further research, this version may not be uncommon inside China.
 
Attached are pictures which will allow you to make a quick check of large and small D.
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Aside from this informative old post and touching on the fact that NGC acknowledge and began grading these with Small D labeled sometime in 2012 and PCGS accrediting them sometime later in 2013?

If one searches through the archives of NGC news they find extensive articles on counterfeiting and altering coins. NGC posts an article where they specifically relate to the 2001 China silver Panda in 2007.

A conclusion can be reached that establishes the fact NGC would closely scrutinize the 2001 D coin if any future varieties were to come forth.

Further an article related to the posted 12/12/2012 on the goldfish and pagoda sets finishes with this statement.
“After careful research including consultation with several Chinese mints, NGC acknowledges that all four metal types were officially minted. As a result, NGC will now accept all four metal types for certification.”

I know a rep from PCGS had posted here in the past. Perhaps someone from these companies can provide information on their grading of this coin.



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General Discussion / Re: Fraudulent Buyer from Texas
« Last post by KeyDate1/2ozPandas on Yesterday at 11:32:07 PM »
That makes 6 dealers that I know of.  I didn't even bother to deposit the check after google search his delivery address and the fact he never contacted me about buying any coin, just sent a check. 

US dealers wonder why we take so much risk to ship overseas, what they don't realize is the biggest risk are not overseas collectors, but domestic dealers when it comes to fraud and non-payment. 
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Sharp eyes catching that common scratch, Poconopenn!
Some of the earlier posted pics also seems to suggest wider mirror band - would be interesting to see if this is possibly just a frosting variation?

See SANDAC's  GIF overlay Large D/ Small D

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0
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Photos of small D, 3764927-005
Please note that this coin has a die marking that's different than most small-D.  It is a small dot under the character "people" on the temple side as documented here:
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2193.msg48699#msg48699


SANDAC, thanks for nice pictures.

The picture of SANDAC’s coin confirm that his coin was minted with the same production die used in minting the three PCGS graded coin posted previously (Reply #39). As shown in the attached pictures, these four coins has a scratched line at the same position. Two submissions, NGC 3649454-001-010 (6/10 are MS70) and 4289022-011-032 (3/21 are MS70), based on pictures at NGC website, also show the same scratched line.

One recently graded (4443698-001) coin, which currently listed at eBay, does not show the scratched line, but has a wider mirror band as marked in the attached picture. This need further research to confirm if there is a new version of SD or just optic illusion.  NGC has locked me out to use its verification site to check this invoice # at this moment. Apparently, NGC does not like anybody to use its site for research. I was locked out after 15 minutes and needed to wait for 6 hours to be able to look the picture again. This happened twice yesterday.

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