Author Topic: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions  (Read 92222 times)

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Offline Kirin

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #225 on: November 15, 2014, 02:12:32 PM »
Yes, that would be great, but any photos I have ever seen on his eBay pages are far tooooo tiny to actually
have a high resolution examination.
Best to you;
Kirin

Offline Kirin

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #226 on: November 16, 2014, 06:59:20 PM »
Fwang & Poconopen:
                       Your comment regarding the Type 2 - 3 tael Great Wall: " For Type II, the consensus is that the medal was not made in 1984, but in 1987. NGC makes a lot of mistakes on dates."
                         Then wouldn't the example be found in the “Modern Chinese Commemorative Gold and Silver Coins and Medals Pictorial” (published by China Gold Coin Inc., June 1988)?  That Poconopen provided as a reference?  Whether the the Great Wall 3 tael - Type 2 was minted in 1984 or 1987?   I would wonder why the 1988 publication done by the China Gold Coin Corp. would not have the successive chronological record that would place the Type 2 Great Wall - 3 tael a stated Year?   Anyone, especially Poconopen (who has the catalog)??
Thanks Much;
Kirin

Offline jc888888888

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #227 on: November 16, 2014, 08:55:25 PM »
just a quick note I have done a lot of business with naomi01225   .............not recently but in the past quite a bit mostly coins to resell hundreds of colorized dragons 2012 when they where the rage ..   he is an honest guy and does what he says he is going to ..i would PP gift him 5 to 10k for coins at a clip he would always deliver as described with no issue just an FYI

Offline Russ 736

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #228 on: November 16, 2014, 09:21:24 PM »
I would add my support of naomi1255 to that of jc888888888. I have done a lot of business with him and have always found him to be honest, fair and a man of his word.

Russ

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #229 on: November 16, 2014, 09:59:17 PM »
Fwang & Poconopen:
                       Your comment regarding the Type 2 - 3 tael Great Wall: " For Type II, the consensus is that the medal was not made in 1984, but in 1987. NGC makes a lot of mistakes on dates."
                         Then wouldn't the example be found in the “Modern Chinese Commemorative Gold and Silver Coins and Medals Pictorial” (published by China Gold Coin Inc., June 1988)?  That Poconopen provided as a reference?  Whether the the Great Wall 3 tael - Type 2 was minted in 1984 or 1987?   I would wonder why the 1988 publication done by the China Gold Coin Corp. would not have the successive chronological record that would place the Type 2 Great Wall - 3 tael a stated Year?   Anyone, especially Poconopen (who has the catalog)??
Thanks Much;
Kirin

Just my speculation. The version 2 of proof great wall medal might be made by Shanghai Mint without the authorization of the People’s Bank of China. The book mentioned previously was actually published by the People’s Bank of China/China Gold Coin Inc. The book only covers all coins and medals authorized by the People’s Bank of China.

Version 2 also has the same defects in seal (reverse) as 1987 brass great wall medal.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #230 on: November 16, 2014, 10:21:50 PM »
I was searching for clear picture of great wall medal and found these two great wall brass medals with completely different design in reverse. Both were made at Shanghai Mint.  Please note that 殷国清 is the best known collector of Chinese medals inside China, may be in the world.

http://www.coin001.com/museum.php?action=myshowdata_show&uid=8461&showdata_id=991

http://www.coin001.com/museum.php?action=myshowdata_show&uid=8461&showdata_id=1000

Here is one of 殷国清 blog suggesting many fake 1984 matte great wall medals in the market place and picture of fake medal. In addition, he also suggested that matte version was restrike of mirror version, but did not mention the year.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4fe5fde30102e8db.html

Here is his matte version of proof great wall medal.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4fe5fde30100o67v.html

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #231 on: November 17, 2014, 12:19:41 AM »
Poconopenn, an article by Liu Hong sheds light on the early Great Wall brass medals. The one in your post for the People's Bank of China is mentioned in there. It is supposed to be the first one in the series:
http://www.taodocs.com/p-6201076.html

The mismatched Great Wall with the Grapes/Insects was auctioned off on Oct. 12 this year at ePama:

http://www.epama.net/v2/Detail.do?Catelog_ID=47471


Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #232 on: November 17, 2014, 12:28:02 AM »
What was the final sale price of the grapes & leaves reverse Great Wall medal? I don't understand how to read Chinese language.




Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #233 on: November 17, 2014, 01:12:06 AM »
What was the final sale price of the grapes & leaves reverse Great Wall medal? I don't understand how to read Chinese language.




It was passed as the starting bid was high, at RMB30,000.

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #234 on: November 17, 2014, 02:16:16 PM »
I translated RAREMEDAL's post on varieties of brass Plum flower Great Wall medals, here: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=10933.msg63735#msg63735

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #235 on: November 17, 2014, 02:33:02 PM »
Just my speculation. The version 2 of proof great wall medal might be made by Shanghai Mint without the authorization of the People’s Bank of China. The book mentioned previously was actually published by the People’s Bank of China/China Gold Coin Inc. The book only covers all coins and medals authorized by the People’s Bank of China.

Version 2 also has the same defects in seal (reverse) as 1987 brass great wall medal.
The seal of the 87 Beacon Tower Great Wall (type/version II) is in a better condition on the stained copper medal than on the silver medal, an indication that the silver medal was made later than the stained copper one, which was produced in 1987. See the pictures below. This is in keeping with the tradition of Shanghai Mint, which produced brass/copper medals before silver ones. It is likely that the silver version was struck as "afterthoughts", to be used as gifts, without going through the authorization of the PBOC.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #236 on: November 22, 2014, 03:54:03 PM »
fwang, if it's true that the silver 1987 Great Wall medals may not have been authorized by the PBoC and the bronze medals were, would that mean that there might be original sales brochures or catalogs from the Shanghai Mint which depicted the bronze medals but not the silver?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #237 on: November 22, 2014, 11:11:23 PM »
fwang, if it's true that the silver 1987 Great Wall medals may not have been authorized by the PBoC and the bronze medals were, would that mean that there might be original sales brochures or catalogs from the Shanghai Mint which depicted the bronze medals but not the silver?
The stained copper (not exactly bronze) 87 Great Wall is listed in catalogs, but not from Shanghai Mint.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #238 on: November 23, 2014, 01:05:18 AM »
Hi fwang, thanks for clarifying. So are there any bronze Great Wall 1984 and 1987 medals or are all the non silver medals considered copper? Are these catalogs you are referring to, sales catalogs with prices?  If yes, what prices were they selling for back in 1987 and did the catalog note mintage numbers for these copper medals?



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Offline fwang2450

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Re: Great Wall 1984 3.3 oz. Silver Medal - Two Versions
« Reply #239 on: November 23, 2014, 10:43:24 AM »
Hi fwang, thanks for clarifying. So are there any bronze Great Wall 1984 and 1987 medals or are all the non silver medals considered copper? Are these catalogs you are referring to, sales catalogs with prices?  If yes, what prices were they selling for back in 1987 and did the catalog note mintage numbers for these copper medals?



.
The 87 copper Great Wall is listed in a catalog by the Numismatic Society of Shanghai Mint. It is not a mint catalog for sales by Shanghai Mint, as it lists medals from other mints/manufacturers. It is a summary of large size copper medals up till 1997, for the benefits of collectors. I am attaching a photo of its cover. There is no price info in it, but it does list the designer, year, mintage and the mint.

The 1987 Great Wall copper medal has a mintage of 48300, according to the catalog.