Author Topic: Medals Commemorating the 60th Anniversary of the Palace Museum of Forbidden City  (Read 3266 times)

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Offline Alien

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It appears that there have been more and more such medals showing up on the market, both brass and silver medas and some with proof quality. It was supposed to be only 200 silver pieces issued in 1985 for the event according to the China Mint Company.  Anyone has thoughts or comments?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-60th-Anniversary-Kuo-Gong-Museum-China-Medal-Coin-Silver-BOX-LOW-MINTAGE-1-/311456925055?hash=item488447857f

http://www.zhaoonline.com/jinianxilie-yin/3362302.shtml 

http://www.zhaoonline.com.hk/qitaqianbi/3352460.shtml 

Offline pandamonium

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Two have been on ebay for a few weeks with out a sale.   In the past they sold quick.   Where are they all coming from?  200 mintage means very rare but maybe sellers need cash?    Are they genuine?...........

Offline Birdman

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It appears that there have been more and more such medals showing up on the market, both brass and silver medas and some with proof quality. It was supposed to be only 200 silver pieces issued in 1985 for the event according to the China Mint Company.  Anyone has thoughts or comments?

In previous discussions, it has been mentioned that the medals can be batched in small hoards more frequently than a similarly rare coin.  See below for one example (albeit, a different medal):

Thank you popo for the flashback on the god of wealth medals, I don't remember them being over $2k, but looking at old forum posts that was really insightful and sad at the same time. 

I can't believe people were paying those crazy prices.  I bought 60x of them at $120 from the original 1989 owner in late 2010, he had 60 more that I passed on.  I sold my 60x for $240 to a dealer friend a few months later, who listed them on ebay for $400-$500 after grading and got the coin popular among true collectors at a reasonable price.  Then along came this CCF seller, who must have gotten their hands on the other 60x coins and pushed prices up from $500 to $5500 in short order by identifying frosting varieties and controlling a major hoard.  That is the major challenge with medals, many are owned as hoards by single investors.  When that investor sells the price can drop like a rock or skyrocket depending on marketing strategy of the dealer that distributes it, I have seen it go both ways. 

The fact that a few are on the market now doesn't seem terribly unusual.  It could just be chance.  Also, it looks like those zhao sales were a couple months ago, so I guess there is always a chance that it is the same coin that was bought in one place and is now available for sale in a different place.

Two have been on ebay for a few weeks with out a sale.   In the past they sold quick.

I would be curious about the price they sold for in the past versus what they are listed for now.  It could be an awesome, rare medal, but if it is priced too high for the market, it will sit unsold.  But, list that same medal for a great price and it will disappear in an instant.

Offline bonke

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Four designs exist. Silver proof.  Brass uncirculated.  Brass proof of silver design.  Brass proof of brass uncirculated design.  Over the years, I have seen a few silver proof medals, many brass uncirculated medals and two sets of the brass proof medals.  Both sets of the brass proof medals were seriously impaired (which could not be resolved with conservation efforts).  Price should be related to rarity and condition.  The silver and brass proof medals are rare, extremely rare in unimpaired condition and always seem to be "expensive."  The brass uncirculated medal is readily available in 65-67 condition and always seem to be "inexpensive."  Still, "expensive" and "inexpensive" are words which vary with each collector.  And, remember, Arif's warning (about hoards) is very realistic and a persistent danger.  I never forget this risk when adding items to my collection.

Mark Bonke 

Offline Alien

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These items appear to be genuine to me. What is the probability about restrikes, especially for the brass proofs including the brass proof one with silver design?

Offline bonke

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I have seen two brass proof sets (one in hand and one in pictures).  Everything about these sets suggests they are genuine (appearance of the medals and packaging).  With the proliferation of counterfeit pandas on the internet, it is difficult to decide whether anything is or is not "real".  When I purchased a brass proof set and submitted it to NCS for conservation and NGC for authentication, grading and encapsulation, I did not worry about the medals authenticity.  I worried about whether NCS could successfully improve the appearance of these medals.  I worried about whether NGC could discover sufficient information about the medals to permit them to grade and encapsulate them.  So, I did have worries, but these were the normal worries associated with purchasing modern Chinese brass medals and submitting them for conservation and grading.

Mark Bonke

Offline poconopenn

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Four designs exist. Silver proof.  Brass uncirculated.  Brass proof of silver design.  Brass proof of brass uncirculated design.  Over the years, I have seen a few silver proof medals, many brass uncirculated medals and two sets of the brass proof medals.  Both sets of the brass proof medals were seriously impaired (which could not be resolved with conservation efforts).  Price should be related to rarity and condition.  The silver and brass proof medals are rare, extremely rare in unimpaired condition and always seem to be "expensive."  The brass uncirculated medal is readily available in 65-67 condition and always seem to be "inexpensive."  Still, "expensive" and "inexpensive" are words which vary with each collector.  And, remember, Arif's warning (about hoards) is very realistic and a persistent danger.  I never forget this risk when adding items to my collection.

Mark Bonke 

Mark,

I have seen 2-coin proof brass medal set few times, but have never seen 2-coin proof silver medal set before. Usually, the proof silver medal was packed in one medal package with design of the left side of the medal as shown in the attached picture. I do not recall I have ever seen the silver medal with design in the right side of the picture. IMO, the medal with design in the right side is more common than the left side, since this brass medal (UNC) was packed in post card folder and sold at Palace Museum shop as late as 1992 (I bought one during my trip in 1992).

Have you ever seen the right side design of this medal in silver proof version?

Offline bonke

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poconopenn

I agree with you.  I have never seen a two-coin silver proof set and I have never seen the medal with the design on the right side of your picture in silver.  Also, all of the uncirculated brass medals which I have purchased were packed in a post card folder.  I agree that this uncirculated brass medal in the post card folder is the most common of the four medals.

NGC refers to the silver proof medal as National Palace Museum 60th Anniversary and the brass proof medal with the same design as Forbidden City Museum Hall of Supreme Harmony.  NGC refers to other design (uncirculated brass and proof brass) as the Forbidden City Museum Corner Gate.  The former design has the modern building and the latter has the older looking building. 

Hopefully, this discussion will lead a forum member to tell us that he or she has seen and owns a silver version of the Forbidden City Museum Corner Gate design.

In my opinion, this silver medal is one of the best designs in my collection.  I would enjoy purchasing another if the price was "reasonable" (whatever that means).

Mark Bonke

Offline fwang2450

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I have two silver proof medals of the Hall of Supreme Harmony design, and two sets of brass proofs. I have never seen a silver medal with the Corner Tower design. Never heard of restrikes of the silver medal.

Offline fwang2450

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It appears that there have been more and more such medals showing up on the market, both brass and silver medas and some with proof quality. It was supposed to be only 200 silver pieces issued in 1985 for the event according to the China Mint Company.  Anyone has thoughts or comments?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-60th-Anniversary-Kuo-Gong-Museum-China-Medal-Coin-Silver-BOX-LOW-MINTAGE-1-/311456925055?hash=item488447857f

http://www.zhaoonline.com/jinianxilie-yin/3362302.shtml 

http://www.zhaoonline.com.hk/qitaqianbi/3352460.shtml 

The eBay listing box is not the kind usually seen with the silver medal, but similar to the box housing the brass proofs.

Offline Alien

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Very useful information and great discussions. For those brass proof set, did any of you purchase them 5 years ago or even 10 years ago?

I do have both the silver and the brass one purchased more than 10 years ago, but either in very good conditions. The recent show-ups are much more appealing, which triggered my questions for help from the forum.

Offline fwang2450

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Very useful information and great discussions. For those brass proof set, did any of you purchase them 5 years ago or even 10 years ago?

I do have both the silver and the brass one purchased more than 10 years ago, but either in very good conditions. The recent show-ups are much more appealing, which triggered my questions for help from the forum.
There was a brass proof hoard that reached the market late last year. I got mine from that batch. Had not seen them before. As Mark said, the condition is not good. There are a lot of black spots.

Offline Alien

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Frank, you noticed the difference in boxes for holding the silver medals and the similarity with the box holding the brass proof set, do you have any explanations or speculations?

The box I had for the silver medal was a blue velvet box.

Offline fwang2450

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Frank, you noticed the difference in boxes for holding the silver medals and the similarity with the box holding the brass proof set, do you have any explanations or speculations?

The box I had for the silver medal was a blue velvet box.
This is the first time I saw the silver medal in this box. The box I had seen before was always the blue velvet one, like yours. I cannot think of any explanation now.