Author Topic: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????  (Read 26086 times)

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barsenault

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2014, 10:45:57 PM »

This is a tricky one but could it be that since it is not an official coin the guidelines are a little more relaxed, could they both be OMP? the seals look similar in the pictures. Could it be that they had complaints of rubbing so they changed to the bag inside the seal or viceversa where they sealed with the bag and had complaints so they switched to just sealed with no bag , or no complaints but just changed it ? just a thought but seems as likely as either being resealed. As for Thincat I personally have dealt with him for years and have to say he is my favourite PM dealer hands down whether domestic or international, I can assure any here he would not engage in any purposeful deceptive practice!
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He will get back to me on the questions we are asking.  He is a good guy, and so far the best I've dealt with too!  very responsive, and certainly helps (me) that he speaks english well.  

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2014, 11:10:10 PM »
Is this in the Shenyang Mint seal?

Yes, the sealing pattern is Shenyang Mint.

Attached are section pictures copied from wg’s posting. The first is typical from Shenyang Mint, similar to Frank’s picture copied from listing at Taobao. The second picture is self-sealed pouch, similar to mmissinglink's medal as shown in the picture in the start of this thread.

Now, we have three versions of package; one without bag in Shenyang Mint pouch, one with bag in Shenyang Mint pouch and one with bag in self-sealed pouch.

Buy the coin/medal, not the package or holder.

The sealing pattern of different Mints was  discussed extensively in the following thread.
 
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=9459.0

Those sellers of 2013 Wutai medal might receive the medal from the contract originator without knowing the fact that there were different versions of package made, similar to the discussion of Shanghai Memory medal in the above mentioned thread.






Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #77 on: April 29, 2014, 12:06:56 AM »
ponocopenn,

You write, "...there were different versions of package made..."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that you now believe that all 3 variations, including what you call the "self-sealed pouch" version may actually be coming from the Mint that way?

I read a couple of the 16 pages of that other thread you linked to.  I get it about buying the medal not the OMP but for some collectors, having the medal / coin in the OMP is important. I have met other collectors who also prefer to own certain coins in the OMP instead of not. And besides, equally important is about knowing the integrity and honesty of the sellers in a foreign country that you want to establish a business relationship with.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2014, 12:18:43 AM »
From SilverStackers forum, member honson from Hong Kong appears to believe that the self-sealed pouch version is from the Mint and apparently what happened is that some or many medals were returned to the Mint because of "fade" (I think maybe that is like toning or discoloration) and then the Mint opened the OMP and put the medals inside a baggie and re-sealed the outer plastic pouch.

If I am understanding honson correctly, then the version that ponocopenn refers to as "self sealed pouch" may actually come from the Mint that way after they received some medals returned with "fade" and then the Mint put in baggie for extra protection against "fade" and re-sealed the pouch. I think.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #79 on: April 29, 2014, 12:32:49 AM »
So the mint solution for people complaining about discolouration was to add a little bag inside the mint sealed pouch? That would actually be amusing! if so I think this may be the first issue to use the "baggie inside pouch " method and may be worth a premium....
On another note this looks to be a really nice medal and cant wait to see it in person!


 
From SilverStackers forum, member honson from Hong Kong appears to believe that the self-sealed pouch version is from the Mint and apparently what happened is that some or many medals were returned to the Mint because of "fade" (I think maybe that is like toning or discoloration) and then the Mint opened the OMP and put the medals inside a baggie and re-sealed the outer plastic pouch.

If I am understanding honson correctly, then the version that ponocopenn refers to as "self sealed pouch" may actually come from the Mint that way after they received some medals returned with "fade" and then the Mint put in baggie for extra protection against "fade" and re-sealed the pouch. I think.

Offline silverstar1

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2014, 12:36:45 AM »
Thanks for the good pictures of the mint seals Poconopenn, they certainly appear different in a way , but I am not that familiar in the process.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2014, 12:51:35 AM »
I already left positive feedback for thincat days ago and I do not plan on returning the medal even if I were to find out days from now that there's no way that the Mint shipped some of the Wutai medals in baggies and also a re-sealed plastic pouch.

So I guess in one way, it's a moot point for me since I will keep the medal anyway. But still, I would like to know if it's possible that the Shenyang Mint re-sealed some of its own medals on occasion.

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2014, 06:06:22 AM »
I asked honson for clarity and he says that if the medals came from the Mint in baggies, they would not have been returns that were re-sealed but rather after the first wave of medals release to sale were found to have "fade" problems (perhaps the plastic pouch was getting faded, not the medals), then the subsequent wave of medals released for sale may have been put inside of baggies inside the plastic pouch.

That does make more sense than the Mint re-sealing returned medals. Nonetheless, if it is the Mint putting the medals in baggies, it's the first time I have seen this and the confusion that it caused me is what prompted me to begin this thread.

But still, what doesn't make so much sense is the variation in sealing pattern of the medal I received and pictured previously. How would that be explained?

barsenault

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2014, 06:59:24 AM »
I asked honson for clarity and he says that if the medals came from the Mint in baggies, they would not have been returns that were re-sealed but rather after the first wave of medals release to sale were found to have "fade" problems (perhaps the plastic pouch was getting faded, not the medals), then the subsequent wave of medals released for sale may have been put inside of baggies inside the plastic pouch.

That does make more sense than the Mint re-sealing returned medals. Nonetheless, if it is the Mint putting the medals in baggies, it's the first time I have seen this and the confusion that it caused me is what prompted me to begin this thread.

But still, what doesn't make so much sense is the variation in sealing pattern of the medal I received and pictured previously. How would that be explained?

Not to mention, I have 2 variations of 'baggie types' in the pouches. I'll take pictures.  This is the craziest thing I've ever seen.  And we still don't have a rock solid explanation yet.  Most just speculation and conjecture...hopefully someone who is chinese can find out. :-)

barsenault

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2014, 08:33:14 AM »
Three medals, 2 dealers, and 2 different baggies. Maybe one is more valuable than the other. LOL.  402 and 445 are the same color, and 929 is clear. 


Offline ggoodluck2013

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2014, 08:45:37 AM »
Is this in the Shenyang Mint seal?
There is no doubt that it is an original packing

Offline ggoodluck2013

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2014, 09:00:43 AM »
Three medals, 2 dealers, and 2 different baggies. Maybe one is more valuable than the other. LOL.  402 and 445 are the same color, and 929 is clear. 


They are all original packing

Offline mmissinglink

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2014, 11:26:01 AM »
Thank you ggoodluck. I must assume that you are certain about this as you are a dealer in China who has seen  Wutai medals come directly from the Mint in those 3 packaging versions, yes?

Offline ggoodluck2013

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2014, 11:35:20 AM »
Thank you ggoodluck. I must assume that you are certain about this as you are a dealer in China who has seen  Wutai medals come directly from the Mint in those 3 packaging versions, yes?

If you are now in Shanghai Lugong Market which is one of the biggest maket in China,you take those three to any dealer and ask,they will tell you,original packing.


barsenault

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Re: Is this the 2013 Wutai silver medal original mint packaging????
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2014, 11:54:38 PM »
Well, here you go.  Comment from perhaps my favorite dealer in China.  Thincat.

Hi Bob,
Sorry for the later reply...
"Regarding the pouch sealing confusion: As you know, Shenyang mint made such medals batch by batch, so to speak, 200 pcs for the first batch, then came another batch of 200 or even 300, for each batch, the sealing pattern could be different, and it's very normal.  I clearly remember that for the first batch of the wutai, there is no plastic bag inside the pouch, but for the newly made ones, there are; Furthermore, I also remind myself that the first batch of the medals came in a sheet (5 x 8) pieces, in order to cut one single medal from the whole sheet, you need to cut the conjuction pouch part between two medals, such conjuction pouch part is very thin and I believe both medals or at least one medal will be cut open as its pouch has split, in this case, some dealers will just sell the medals as they are, but other dealers will seal the medal by themselves, can you say it's a re-sealed one? I think not. In a word, I strongly suggest that we should forget whether medal is re-sealed or not, and it makes no sense, such putuo or wutai medals are drak silver medals, no milk or dark spots can be generated, so it makes no sense for the dealers to cut the pouch and to polish the medals, right? Last not certainly not the least, all such wutai and putuo medals are genuine ones, I have never seen fakes, I don't believe there exist fakes, as they are relatively cheap stuffs comparing to Chinese coins that have face value, and the counterfeiters are only interested on making some expensive Chinese coins (most of them are old chinese pandas), as they are easy to sell and the they can bring more back by copying such panda coins instead of medals. Also, just look at the putuo or wutai medals, how "mazy" they are, high relief... I think those who can really counterfeit these medals can set up their legal business and don't need to copy others' work at all."