Author Topic: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27  (Read 3112 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline PandaQuest

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: 13
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2018, 10:10:06 AM »
Is there a link for the completed auction results? Thx

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2018, 12:11:17 PM »
Is there a link for the completed auction results? Thx
Completed auctions can be found here: http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&skip=1&auction_status=3&1=1. Auctions from previous years are also included. Just look at the dates. The most recent one ended on 3/26 and 27.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 229
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2018, 12:49:42 PM »
Again, this is an excellent result for specimen circulated coin, especially for some later year coins in OMP. Most coins were ended about 50-70% higher than the price guide posted on 3/6/2018 at coin001.com.

http://www.coin001.com/read.php?tid=142296

Offline 1668Chris

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+12)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 728
  • Karma: 37
    • Coin Armour
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2018, 09:29:54 PM »
There have been some discussions on the tool marks on coin001.com. They appear to be intentional, observed on both business strikes and proof versions of the Great Wall coins. It is strange that the field takes on this frosting effect, not just the devices. This frosted field in the national emblem also appears on precious metal coins, such as these:



If you have time can you summarize the discussion on coin001.  I am at a loss because looking at the NGC photo the marks are hand made and look like scratches which was made to look like frosting.  Why this type of coin is even graded is a mystery unless for some reason the die was made this way. 

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2018, 11:13:12 PM »
If you have time can you summarize the discussion on coin001.  I am at a loss because looking at the NGC photo the marks are hand made and look like scratches which was made to look like frosting.  Why this type of coin is even graded is a mystery unless for some reason the die was made this way. 
The lines were not hand made on the coin. They are not scratches. The NGC scan exaggerated the lines due the 90 degree lighting to those lines. If anything, they look like die polish lines, RISING above the field. I am attaching the picture of a 1980 1 yuan business strike below.

These polish lines do create a frost-like contrast between the field inside the national emblem and the field outside it. Is this effect intentional or accidental? If accidental resulting from normal die polishing, why was polishing limited to the field inside? Considering similar effects on precious metal coins (frosted field inside the emblem), is it possible that the mints were experimenting with some new technology? If it is intentional, why do these lines also occur on proof coins, like the one in your link, which already have frosting? These are some of the puzzles.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 229
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2018, 02:05:15 PM »
Striation (incuse polish lines on a die) is relatively common for the earlier MCC, especially for gold coin. It will not affect the grading. Here is an example of 1986 peace gold coin (PF69). Majority of this peace gold coin graded as 69 by both PCGS and NGC have the  polish lines.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 229
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2018, 02:22:45 PM »
The lines were not hand made on the coin. They are not scratches. The NGC scan exaggerated the lines due the 90 degree lighting to those lines. If anything, they look like die polish lines, RISING above the field. I am attaching the picture of a 1980 1 yuan business strike below.

These polish lines do create a frost-like contrast between the field inside the national emblem and the field outside it. Is this effect intentional or accidental? If accidental resulting from normal die polishing, why was polishing limited to the field inside? Considering similar effects on precious metal coins (frosted field inside the emblem), is it possible that the mints were experimenting with some new technology? If it is intentional, why do these lines also occur on proof coins, like the one in your link, which already have frosting? These are some of the puzzles.

IMO, those polish lines were done accidentally. The field is the flat surface of the working die and not all 1980 1 Yuan have  polish lines.

Offline UniqueCoins

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: 14
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2018, 04:23:52 PM »
This 100 Yuan Panda 1994 have too Polish Lines and it was graded PFUC70.

But you only can see it with the right light.

Online pandamonium

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2243
  • Karma: 37
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2018, 07:30:30 AM »
Are polish lines the same as hair lines?    If not, what is the difference?.....

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2018, 05:34:17 PM »
Are polish lines the same as hair lines?    If not, what is the difference?.....
Hairlines occur after coins are made. They are incuse (lower than the field). Blank polishing lines are also incuse, but they occur before striking and therefore may run "under" the devices. Die polishing lines occur when dies are polished. They are incuse on the die, and so are protruding on the coin surface, i.e. higher than the field. They may also run "under" the devices. The picture below shows die polishing lines. They protrude from the field and run under the stars.

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2018, 12:14:49 AM »
IMO, those polish lines were done accidentally. The field is the flat surface of the working die and not all 1980 1 Yuan have  polish lines.
I also thought initially that these were random die polishing lines. But die polishing lines are normally not confined to the emblem field, as the first picture below shows. In the second picture, the lines are clearly located within the emblem itself. I cannot imagine how it was achieved.

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 229
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2018, 09:39:56 PM »
I also thought initially that these were random die polishing lines. But die polishing lines are normally not confined to the emblem field, as the first picture below shows. In the second picture, the lines are clearly located within the emblem itself. I cannot imagine how it was achieved.


The design of the Chinese characters and emblem are concave, below the flat surface of the working die. Polish can be done either at the flat surface inside the emblem or all flat surface of the die. IMO, this was done by poorly trained production technicians. Clearly, some working dies were not polished at all, since not all coins produced in the same year shown striation. 

Offline fwang2450

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1040
  • Karma: 172
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2018, 11:22:32 AM »
The design of the Chinese characters and emblem are concave, below the flat surface of the working die. Polish can be done either at the flat surface inside the emblem or all flat surface of the die. IMO, this was done by poorly trained production technicians. Clearly, some working dies were not polished at all, since not all coins produced in the same year shown striation. 
Thanks for your insight. It is helpful.

Offline SANDAC

  • Supporter
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
  • Karma: 118
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2018, 10:49:22 PM »
The discussions about striation lines remind me of my question in 2013 about unexplained lines on the temple side of my 1985 1oz Gold Panda.  http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7894.msg46252#msg46252

I had a sheet of 10 and they all have the same set of lines.  I submitted a few over the years and they came back with grades of MS67-69.  I still have a few in OMP and I took one of them out and try to take a better picture without the plastic cover. 

Looking at them under microscope I can see numerous raised lines, too many and too well organized to be die cracks.  They are not concentric lines (artifacts of pantographic transfer), but yet I think they are die making tooling marks of some sort.  Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?

Offline poconopenn

  • Supporter
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2690
  • Karma: 229
Re: Spring auction, coin001.com, 3/24- 3/27
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2018, 02:13:36 PM »
The discussions about striation lines remind me of my question in 2013 about unexplained lines on the temple side of my 1985 1oz Gold Panda.  http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7894.msg46252#msg46252

I had a sheet of 10 and they all have the same set of lines.  I submitted a few over the years and they came back with grades of MS67-69.  I still have a few in OMP and I took one of them out and try to take a better picture without the plastic cover. 

Looking at them under microscope I can see numerous raised lines, too many and too well organized to be die cracks.  They are not concentric lines (artifacts of pantographic transfer), but yet I think they are die making tooling marks of some sort.  Can anyone shed some light on this mystery?

Thanks for such a high resolution picture. I am surprised that you can notice such thin lines. IMO, again, it was done by poorly trained production technicians to try to clean the surface of "working hub". The temple design is the raised part of the working hub.