Author Topic: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins  (Read 16938 times)

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Offline fwang2450

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I have not updated my blog for a while, partly because I was running out of solid materials to translate. Now I discovered a series by a coin/bank note dealer at the Lugong Market in Shanghai, the biggest coin market in China. He covers what was missing from my past posts, namely recent precious metal coins, circulating coins, and market analysis of such coins. His posts started at the end of 2011, and have been running ever since. I will pick what I think is important and translate them for those who do not know Chinese. The original posts are located here:

http://club.pchome.net/thread_1_15_6648665__.html

My two recent translations are posted at:

http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/01/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins.html
http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/01/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-2.html

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 12:03:39 AM »
Another excellent translation.

From one of the article "...Ningxia ... is priced over RMB1000...".  WOW.  I recalled these used to be a dime a dozen.

Offline aragog

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 05:08:31 AM »
Both are my favourite themes and I my thoughts were always in line with those translated.
Moreover, one of the main advantages of the NPM circulation coins that I appreciate most, is their legal easy handling, those are coins that have exquisitely numismatic value, they can command a high values but at the same time have the advantage of stamps - they are not under the law of PM trade and transportation, many countries have more or less strict laws on PM import/export and at some time it can change drastically, PM is really tasty piece for any goverment, while in trouble. And with $1000 CuNi coin only feww people know its true value.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 08:07:20 AM »
I picked up a few of the circulated cuni coins for peanuts because of the favorable design and could not afford the silver version.   All Chinese money continues upward...........

Offline poconopenn

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2014, 11:42:45 AM »
Excellent translation as always.

Just want to mention that DanDan's (bomber8) comments were posted between September 2011 and March 2012. The market of MCC has changed significantly since then. The valuation of coins mentioned in his posts has dropped, some of them are more than 50%. The circulated Cu-Ni and aluminum coins are for collector, not for investors/speculators. The mintages of 1984-1995 coins are several millions and recent issued are more than 10 millions. They are  related to grade rarity, not mintage rarity, similar to US Indian and Lincoln Cents.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2014, 11:51:50 AM »
Excellent translation as always.

Just want to mention that DanDan's (bomber8) comments were posted between September 2011 and March 2012. The market of MCC has changed significantly since then. The valuation of coins mentioned in his posts has dropped, some of them are more than 50%. The circulated Cu-Ni and aluminum coins are for collector, not for investors/speculators. The mintages of 1984-1995 coins are several millions and recent issued are more than 10 millions. They are  related to grade rarity, not mintage rarity, similar to US Indian and Lincoln Cents.
Thanks. Actually he is still writing. The link I gave is what he called his "first season". Now he is in his "third season": http://club.pchome.net/thread_1_15_7285919.html

Last time I checked, Ningxia is still selling around 900 Yuan. But of course you know better than me on the markets.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2014, 02:36:26 PM »
Thanks. Actually he is still writing. The link I gave is what he called his "first season". Now he is in his "third season": http://club.pchome.net/thread_1_15_7285919.html

Last time I checked, Ningxia is still selling around 900 Yuan. But of course you know better than me on the markets.

Thanks for the new link.

The current valuation of Cu-Ni proof and UNC posted at jibi.net is for coins from  original bank roll, which will have an average grade of MS65 or PR66. The coins for sale in the market place are usually lower grade.

http://bbs.jibi.net/dispbbs.asp?boardid=58&ID=255819&replyID=255819

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2014, 04:04:28 PM »
Ningxia:  156M -> 900 RMB

The People's Bank:  206.8M -> 3000 RMB

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 11:10:32 PM »
What about the 86 1Y Year of Peace?.......

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 11:56:24 PM »
What about the 86 1Y Year of Peace?.......
Mintage 27 million. Current price from poconopenn's link: 25 Yuan.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 05:06:52 PM »
The third translation in the series has been posted on my blog: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/01/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-3.html. This post discusses the king of the Chinese circulating commemorative coins, the 40th Anniversary of the Founding of the People's Bank of China. It rose from one Yuan in 1988 to between 3000 to 4000 Yuan now. Someone was puzzled by its price a few months back, and here you will find the answer.

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 05:12:45 PM »
Excellent information.

"Collection index: 10 (King of the commemorative coins, with no challenger, a must-have for commemorative coin collection)".  Where do the Proof and Pattern versions stand in the ranking?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 05:21:36 PM »
Excellent information.

"Collection index: 10 (King of the commemorative coins, with no challenger, a must-have for commemorative coin collection)".  Where do the Proof and Pattern versions stand in the ranking?
He was talking about business strikes. Proofs and patterns were not considered.

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 05:45:02 PM »
Would be interested to read more about Proof and Pattern of the various 1 Yuan coins as not much discussion is focus on them.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 05:23:01 PM »
Would be interested to read more about Proof and Pattern of the various 1 Yuan coins as not much discussion is focus on them.
These are expensive now and Dandan avoids talking about expensive coins as his readers are mostly starters. I will translate some posts by the circulating guru Sun Keqing on circulating proof coins and patterns when I have time.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2014, 05:12:01 PM »
Here is a 1 Y.    Ebay 271372904635   1985 PF 69 1 Y Tibetan Autonomy 20th Anniversary    $1,798!    Good seller XuHong.....   These 1 Y are no longer cheap........

Offline pandamonium

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2014, 05:22:19 PM »
Oops,   thats ebay 271372907635 is the correct number.....

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2014, 07:15:47 PM »
The ranking list of the Chinese proof circulating coins from Sun Keqin has been translated: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/02/on-early-circulating-proof-coins-rarity.html

Offline davidt3251

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 12:06:20 AM »
Hi Frank,

Thanks. Interesting.

So do the coins mentioned all have both circulating and proof issues?

Aside form features like the coins finish, are there any other ways to distinguish between Proof and circulating? Any distinguising marks?

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 12:22:40 AM »
Hi Frank,

Thanks. Interesting.

So do the coins mentioned all have both circulating and proof issues?

Aside form features like the coins finish, are there any other ways to distinguish between Proof and circulating? Any distinguising marks?

Those are all circulating and proof. Some of the later proofs did have "J"  on the edge, to indicate "proof', but not these early proof coins.

I am glad you found the post interesting.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 09:31:17 PM »
The ranking list of the Chinese proof circulating coins from Sun Keqin has been translated: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/02/on-early-circulating-proof-coins-rarity.html

Mr. Sun wrote his article in 2006 prior to the discovery of the existence of Shanghai version of 1984 35th anniversary of the founding of PRC in 2007. IMO, this Cu-Ni proof coin is one of the top 5 key coins in the proof circulated commemorative series (total 68 coins from 1984 to 2014, pattern not included).

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6501.0

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 03:10:26 PM »
Mr. Sun wrote his article in 2006 prior to the discovery of the existence of Shanghai version of 1984 35th anniversary of the founding of PRC in 2007. IMO, this Cu-Ni proof coin is one of the top 5 key coins in the proof circulated commemorative series (total 68 coins from 1984 to 2014, pattern not included).

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6501.0

In his latest book, the 4 top rarities remain the same, with the 1986 Great Wall added, which is not a commemorative coin set. The Shanghai version of 1984 35th anniversary of the founding of PRC is added to the "minor rarities", right at the bottom of the list.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2014, 01:36:56 AM »

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 08:13:58 PM »
Dandan's comments on panda coins with added words and Beijing Coin Expo coins translated: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/05/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-5.html

Offline fwang2450

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Offline NBM

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2014, 05:16:46 AM »
Dandan's post on fan shaped coins translated: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/05/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-6-fan_23.html

wassergeist's example showing how the puzzle goes together was stunning.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2014, 09:18:44 PM »
Dandan's post on the 1997 Auspicious Matters silver coin is posted at: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/07/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-7.html. There is an interesting recount of the 1997 coin market collapse in China.

Offline NBM

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2014, 02:29:21 AM »
This coin was cursed by speculators in more ways than one.
Thank you Frank for another insight into the world of Chinese numismatics.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2014, 03:55:07 AM »
wassergeist's example showing how the puzzle goes together was stunning.

There's a saying that goes, "you can't have your coins arranged as a cake and eat it."  :001_tt2:

Offline fwang2450

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Re: New series of post on Chinese precious metal and circulating coins
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2014, 03:13:41 PM »
Dandan's post on the 5 oz rectangular silver Tiger has been translated: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2014/12/dandans-comments-on-chinese-coins-7-5.html