Author Topic: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)  (Read 4502 times)

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Offline Birdman

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Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« on: June 17, 2013, 02:12:53 PM »
http://expo.whitman.com/baltimore-summer-expo/

Will any forum members be setting up a table at this week's Baltimore coin show?  I hope to be able to attend for several hours to buy/sell/trade/observe.  Let me know your table number, and I'll be sure to stop by.

Offline vkind

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 07:41:04 PM »
Birdman,

Would you know if this expo traditionally has quite a bit of modern Chinese coins/dealers? I will be there for couple of hours on Saturday evening and posting this question in case any one has experience from the past years.

Thanks,
vk

Offline Birdman

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 08:56:47 PM »
Birdman,

Would you know if this expo traditionally has quite a bit of modern Chinese coins/dealers? I will be there for couple of hours on Saturday evening and posting this question in case any one has experience from the past years.

Thanks,
vk

vk,

I went to the summer Baltimore show the last two years (see below for a few comments I made each time).  It is indeed a big show, and there are lots of coin dealers, but I think that more of the dealers of Chinese coins went to the Long Beach Show a few weeks ago.  I think dealers make it a priority to go to Long Beach (I have never been there, as I am on the East coast), and only a portion of them also make it to Baltimore show, since they are only a few weeks apart.  Thus, I am stopping by the Baltimore show with modest expectations, but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.  I also like other World coins besides Chinese coins, so I can be happy wandering the aisles and browsing.

Chinese coins seemed to be the hottest coin sector at today's Baltimore show.  I saw more than one person going to table after table asking specifically if the dealer had any Chinese material.  Several dealers with pandas had their Panda Pricepedias handy to quote prices (no super deals to be found at those tables!). 

There were a few dealers with some higher end modern China material.  There was, however, very little high grade Empire/Republic material at the tables.  I think it is all going directly to auction.  I did see a Hupeh 1909 dollar Y-131 NGC XF for $600 at one table.  I came back a bit later to take another look at it and it had already been sold. I was able to get some solid prices for some of my extra silver pandas and a few better date 1/20 ounce gold pandas. 

I did pick up a few nice older Chinese minors from one dealer for an attractive price.  I sold about half of the surplus material that I was looking to unload (China and other countries).  I'll work the tables again tomorrow to sell the rest, and then buy one or two nice coins with the proceeds.

I'll try to remember to snap a few photos of the Chinese coin action to post on this site, or perhaps someone else that was there today took a few photos that they'll post?

I showed up to the Baltimore Show early with a number of graded, better-date gold pandas;  I was looking to trade for some dates I didn't have.  The only problem was that there were very few better-date gold pandas present at this large coin show.  I asked some dealers why there were so few.  More than one dealer said that the coins had been bought up and sent to China over the past few weeks/months.  Accordingly, I only traded one Panda today, and it was for a nice Thailand silver coin from 1863, not for modern Chinese.

I also observed several Chinese individuals today negotiating hard, and buying up a lot of coins.  I spoke to one Chinese man who said he was visiting from China on a coin buying trip.  He was buying dozens of coins.

A few dealers showed strong interest in buying what I had, but when I saw how little material was available on the floor, my thinking was that it is better to hold onto these pieces than sell to a dealer right now for 10% or so less than current retail price.  It seems that this depleted supply, and the apparent continued demand from China, will cause prices to rise higher.  I'll just keep the coins and use them to trade for pieces of similar scarcity.

Is there anyone else with perspectives/observations from the floor of the Baltimore show?

Birdman



Offline vkind

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 10:57:25 AM »

Thanks Birdman for the details and past post. I will be there Saturday after noon and check it out. I am into some modern US and other foreign coin as well...

Thanks again!


Offline Birdman

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 10:05:12 PM »
I'll type a few thoughts regarding this past week's Baltimore show.  Other members who were also there please add your thoughts too.  If we have a few members periodically give a report from the different shows around the US and the world, it will add some interesting perspectives and insights to the forum.

I was only at the Baltimore show for about 5 hours on Friday, but my sense was that there were more interesting China coins there this year than in the prior two years at the summer Baltimore show.  There were at least half a dozen dealers with a good amount of quality material.  Many of the biggest dealers, however, weren't there (Baltimore closely followed the big Long Beach show).

I saw some transactions between some dealers for China silver dollars and other older pieces.  I got the sense that the prices for some of those pieces has retreated significantly from the price spike a few years ago.   Regarding the more modern material, my observation was that there were some people that were feeling nervous about the bullion market and were happy to sell their material, but on the other side, there were some dealers who were confident about the future of the market and were aggressively buying  (Or, I suppose those dealers could also have been buying because they knew they could rapidly flip the material to their connections for higher than the prices they were buying the coins for at the show).  Overall, these dynamics led to some active buying and selling.

Personally, I had a good show.  I got some fair prices for assorted Chinese gold & silver that either came back from the grading company lower than a 69 or aren't my main collecting focus right now.  I also sold some older world coins from Brazil, Costa Rica, Philippines, Chile, Thailand, and other countries.  Nice coins, but sometimes you need to do some pruning of your collection in order for it to grow even better. 

I was ready to buy more coins at the show.  I tend to look for better-date gold 1/2 ounce pandas in high grade and a few other specific gold coins in high grade.  Although there were a good number of Chinese gold and silver coins to be seen, I didn't see exactly what I was looking for.  I think I saw a 89 G1/2 in MS69 and maybe a few other average G1/2 in MS68, but that was about it.  Accordingly, I didn't buy that much at the show, besides a small gold panda I needed as part of a proof set.  I did buy a fair amount of junk silver, though. 

I would be interested to hear from someone who was there on the first day.  Perhaps during the "early bird" session on Thursday and during the day on Thursday there were some quick sales of certain types of coins, and that is the reason I didn't see them on Friday.  Also, can someone tell me how the show was on Saturday and Sunday?

 N38

Offline comeaux

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 01:21:13 AM »
Birdman … Nice observations of the Baltimore Expo ... thanks !

I’m curious were there a good variety of Gold Pandas in OMP that would appear to be in great condition for fair prices?

Also did you happen to see any graded gold panda “sets” such as the 2000 mirror, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995 or any of the other 90’s sets? If so were the prices fair?

I’m going to try and make more of these shows, the New Orleans ANA show was in May but I did not make it, do you have any idea if this show has a history of having significant coins?

I know four questions in one post is a lot  :laugh: 

Offline Obsidian

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 01:42:30 AM »
Comeaux, or anyone else, if you want to go to the king of international coin shows, you should try to make the Worlds Fair of Money.  This year it is in Chicago from August 13-17.  I went to this show a couple years ago and it is an amazing show.  It makes Long Beach look small.  Usually there are many Chinese coin dealers.  When I went a couple years ago, Nick Brown had a large display of many of his coins.  Sadly that obviously won't be the case this year but I am sure there will be many wonderful coins to see.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 02:12:28 AM »

I’m curious were there a good variety of Gold Pandas in OMP that would appear to be in great condition for fair prices?

Also did you happen to see any graded gold panda “sets” such as the 2000 mirror, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995 or any of the other 90’s sets? If so were the prices fair?

I’m going to try and make more of these shows, the New Orleans ANA show was in May but I did not make it, do you have any idea if this show has a history of having significant coins?


1) The best time to buy nice omp coins is during the first two hours of the show (early bird) and during the last day of the show.  During the early bird session almost all omp get bought up by the dealers, for shows that I attend I will buy every nice looking piece I can get at a reasonable price.  Then on the final day dealers are always looking to make a few more sales rather than take inventory home so you can often find good deals if you know the dealer well and have history of transaction with him.

2) You will rarely see the key dates on the floor at any price except 1982, which appears everywhere despite it high price and implied rarity.  Most of these key coins are sold privately prior to the show or during the early bird session, unless the price is sky high.  I rarely display rare coins or even bring them to coin show, because most collectors are not really looking for those rare birds and if they are they will often contact a dealer to bring those coins especially for them.

3) On the question of whether prices are fair or not, it all depends on your view of the market relative to the person you are buying from.  When prices are going up, I will buy everything because my view is much more bullish than someone that doesn't specialize in Chinese coins so all prices seem cheap.  When prices are going down, I and many others pass because people have old prices stuck in their heads and don't want to budge until a few shows later. I have nice a bid/ask spread graph to illustrate why people should sell when coins are hot and buy when they are cold, I will dig it up and post soon.

4) The ANA New Orleans shows was great for buying on the 2nd day because retail traffic was so light.  It seems like very few collectors came to that show, so dealers unloaded a lot of inventory towards the end at very good prices. I don't believe the show will be returning to New Orleans for a couple of years.  

a) The best show to attend for the year is the upcoming Chicago ANA August 13-17.  It is the biggest show of the year and you will see more panda coins there than any other show in the US or even Hong Kong.

b)The next best show is Long Beach, February, June and September all tend to be good.  

c) In third place is Florida Fun show in January and July, a lot of great coins can be found there during the early bird session and later during the show as public brings material to sell.

d) Finally in forth place is Baltimore, March and November being the best ones, with June being slowest.

e) All other shows are too small to really see many panda coins, however if you are a coin show junkie others I would recommend are: Houston in November, ANA in May (rotates cities every year), St Charles show in July and October (Scottmans typically has auctions tied in with the show), Central States in April, International Coin expo in Chicago in April and any other show NGC or PCGS are attending (see their website).  I am sure there are other good shows that I haven't discovered, such as the Seattle show for Boeing employees or Detroit show over Thanksgiving weekend.

Arif

Offline Birdman

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 08:04:24 AM »
Birdman … Nice observations of the Baltimore Expo ... thanks !

I’m curious were there a good variety of Gold Pandas in OMP that would appear to be in great condition for fair prices?

I don't recall seeing gold pandas in OMP on Friday.  Perhaps I overlooked some, but I was looking for them, and I would have bought them if they were in good condition at a fair price.

Also did you happen to see any graded gold panda “sets” such as the 2000 mirror, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995 or any of the other 90’s sets? If so were the prices fair?

I don't recall seeing a single 5-coin gold panda set for any year.  I don't see complete sets at most of the coin shows I go to in the US (although I haven't been to Chicago or Long Beach).  I don't think the typical US coin show attendee buys complete gold panda sets, so it may not be worth it for dealers to carry all that material to the shows.  As it is, I don't know how some of the dealers transport so many coins to the show. I would feel nervous checking a suitcase full of rare coins under the plane and leaving it out of my sight.  Some of the dealers have what seems to be many suitcases full of inventory in their display cases.  Perhaps if a few people are working the same table, and they each take a small roller bag and a brief case onto the plane, they can carry on all of their inventory and keep an eye on it.  Or maybe they drive across the country, or use FedEx in advance...



Offline james007

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 08:20:23 AM »
Went to Baltimore! I have never paid so much for parking in my entire life! It was a good show. Namchong was Prince of the show with all his Pandas. I wish I brought coins to trade for items. Also there is a shortage out there. I just didn't see many 90's pandas 5 oz. pandas and early silver Chinese coins. Now does this mean they have them? Yeah they probably do. But they just arent selling them.  The last year taught me this. Brick and Mortar Dealers do not sell there premium stuff if they don't have to. Altogether was a good show.


Offline Birdman

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 08:46:11 AM »
I just didn't see many 90's pandas 5 oz. pandas and early silver Chinese coins.

That reminds me.  At last year's Baltimore show, I tried to sell several graded silver pandas (89P, 90SD, 90P in 69; and 99 serif in 68), but I kept them, because I either got no offer, or the offer was far too low.  In contrast, there was more interest in silver pandas at this year's show.  Several dealers wanted to buy them, and I sold all for a fair price.  The dealers must be able to sell them now, and they are looking to build inventory?

Namchong was Prince of the show with all his Pandas. I wish I brought coins to trade for items.


I worked a number of fair deals at this show with Namchong and with Aaron Lancaster, with whom he was was sharing a table.  I'll definitely look for them at future shows.  N31

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 04:00:22 PM »
As long as I'm complimenting people today, I have only good things to say about Namchong and Aaron Lancaster, too.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

Offline Flegend35

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 04:14:31 PM »
Our company had a cocktail reception there two years ago. Its a great show.

Offline comeaux

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Re: Baltimore Summer Expo (Jun 20-23, 2013)
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 06:44:05 PM »
Thanks for the replies to my questions Obsidian, Birdman & Arif !  :thumbup:

Arif I noticed that you mentioned the traffic was light at the New Orleans show, I saw another dealer mention that on another website and she said that it was partially due to very bad weather as it was storming. She did say that she had a blast in NOLA and that there were some interesting coins on display. I will definitely make this show next time !   

I really wish I would have made that NOLA show but I’m going to be targeting the show in Houston as it’s only about a 4 hour drive for me and plenty of other things to do in Houston while I’m there.