Author Topic: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus  (Read 9627 times)

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Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 07:09:13 PM »
Oh, my point was that the US currency and government won't fail any time soon.

And with regard to wars, they are simply hugely profitable while having the convenient side effect of getting rid of bothersome demographics, like unemployed young males or starry eyed patriots. See "war on drugs" for some other kind of hugely profitable endeavour which coincidentally get rid of similarly annoying demographics. In both "wars", America get the profits and quell domestic social unrest, while Mexico, Iraq or whatever "failed/rogue state" of the year gets the pain.

Offline badon

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 07:32:54 PM »
My standard introduction when walking into a room full of people watching American TV is to ask "So, who are we supposed to hate today?"

Year of the Dog

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 08:03:11 PM »
Oh, my point was that the US currency and government won't fail any time soon.

And with regard to wars, they are simply hugely profitable while having the convenient side effect of getting rid of bothersome demographics, like unemployed young males or starry eyed patriots. See "war on drugs" for some other kind of hugely profitable endeavour which coincidentally get rid of similarly annoying demographics. In both "wars", America get the profits and quell domestic social unrest, while Mexico, Iraq or whatever "failed/rogue state" of the year gets the pain.

WOW...... Unemployment is helped by war.......HUH
How?  I guess dead soldiers don't compete for quality jobs.
I have watched the unemployment rate continue to climb for most of my adult life.

"War on Drugs"  "War on Terrorism"  "War on Obesity"
These are campaign slogans and nothing much more than that.

I stand by my point that if the US would stop providing welfare to the rest of the world the US citizens would thrive.  But when old wars are fought with modern weapons that can devastate innocent people I understand why and hope that the US continues to provide a shield between right and wrong, good and evil.
  

Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 08:27:25 PM »
Unemployment makes people desperate. Enlisting start looking attractive to desperate people. Soldiers are more profitable than what they cost, contrary to an unemployed person who costs entitlements that will go directly to Nissin or 7/11. War profits are not only in the form of lavish reconstruction/oil deals in the Evil Country of the Year, but also by injecting money in all the supporting industry back home. War has always been good for employment and generally keeping troublesome young people busy.

War on drugs is designed to take care of another kind of people, those who decide that they are fucked anyway and only hindering themselves by playing by the book (sellers) and those apathetic ones simply smoking the misery away (buyers). Prisonners makes for insanely cheap labour, and well, they cannot quit. Lots of money reinjected through huge supporting industry as well. And please, this "War" is very real for Mexico... You should lookup stuff like http://www.blogdelnarco.com/ sometimes.

If the US could leave us evil people alone and keep its "welfare" to itself I for one would be very pleased!

Year of the Dog

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 08:45:13 PM »
If the US could leave us evil people alone and keep its "welfare" to itself I for one would be very pleased!

Maybe WE could and WE would if those damn drug cartels weren't sitting in Mexico and the South Pacific.

Sorry I don't ready crazy bias blog sites.  But I do sit at my office and fund people everyday so they can purchase a car.  The US isn't full of fat lazy people hoping that they will all get a chunk of the Iraq oil jackpot.  It's full of people that can't afford to live the quality of life they did 10 years ago.  Good People that can't afford a home because they got so upside down in the one they had foreclosed on.  It's full of people that can't finance a TIC-TAC right now.  If war is good for the economy then somebody has sure been pulling a fast one on me for the last 10 years.

Oh by the way enlisting is down over the last decade.  The US military service just recently loosened the requirements of enlisted soldiers, airman, seaman and marines to allow for more ex-convicts to join.  This is a result of 2 issues.  1 to make it easier for ex-convicts to find work in a horrible job market.  2 to try to keep up with the recruits that are needed in our nations military.  

Dragondollar........Why do you hate America?

Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 09:13:20 PM »
Well, if you read back this thread, you will see that my comments do not include any words like "lazy", "fat", or any other kind of derogatory language actually.

People are people are people. I don't care if they are Americans, Chinese or Iraqi. We are all in together anyway. What is of interest to me is politics, and american politics especially are fascinating/frightening.

My point here anyway is that those wishing for hyperinflation are likely to be as disappointed as Harold Camping followers.

I would like to finish by pointing out that even I, a now officially sanctionned America-Hater™, would not wish Mad Max living conditions for any of your fellow countrymen, including the aforementioned fictional "Manhattan interior decorator" and "chicken plucker".

Ah, and one of my secondary points is that indeed "somebody" is pulling a fast one on the american people at large. Not that anyone can do anything about it at that point.

Offline badon

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 10:20:10 PM »
I think you are both right in different ways. One thing I would like to add to the discussion is that welfare by itself is not bad. In fact, it's not even a terribly large burden on the national economies in the Western countries. It is in everyone's best interest to ensure people do not become desperate.

In particular, welfare programs that focus on injured workers are incredibly important to ensure a fearless and eager workforce is always available and able to do the work nobody else wants to do. If you have a dangerous job (like bus driver), you can focus on your job, and you won't say no to your boss if you know you will be taken care of if you get hurt.

With that said, welfare programs in the USA are extremely sick, and they're actually being used to divide and conquer the population of the USA. The danger of poverty is what used to keep women married and in stable families. Now, not only do they get everything the American men produce in alimony payments, they also get increased benefits for the more children they have outside of marriage.

The people designing these programs aren't stupid, they know exactly what they're doing. A nation's strength starts and ends in the families. Divide and conquer...

Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 10:31:51 PM »
Yep, however I think the word "welfare" in the original comment of Year of the Dog did not refer to this, but more of a "Team America - World Police" thing, hence my slightly sarcastic comment.

I agree with you on welfare programmes in general - they are necessary to a healthy society.

Year of the Dog

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 10:42:08 PM »
HAHA......  

TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE (Start the hardcore theme song NOW)

Not at all.  My original frustration was the Idea that if and or when the world currencies fail the United States would turn into 16th century Conquistadores.   Running around knocking out inferior countries.  

Kazakhstan will go down first for it's Potassium.   (If your don't get it don't worry about it)  


As it was said earlier war is expensive and if the US doesn't have any money then investing in rebuilding America makes far more sense.  Protecting America may become priority number 2.   But invading other countries for their natural resources that we don't need?   Huh



Offline SANDAC

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 10:52:23 PM »
Yes, war is expensive.  $800 billions spent on Iraq for 2.4 million barrel of oil per day is pricy.  It is just too expensive to invade another country.  And let's be brutally frank:  There are not too many countries nicer than the USA to justify an invasion.

Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2012, 11:48:25 PM »
Sure, it is costly on the country balance sheet, but these billions are basically rerouted to corporate pockets, not disappearing into thin air.

As for "justified" invasion wars...

Since 2001, the US waged 2 open invasion wars, and is doing stuff in Pakistan, Yemen and the Horn of Africa which could be called war.

Here is a list of the other nation states that were involved in *invasion* war (civil war is another thing entirely), in the 2001-2012 timeframe:
- Russia/Ossetia/Georgia/Caucasus emirate
- Djibouti/Eritrea
- South Sudan/Sudan

To get back to the main topic, hyperinflation will not happen in the US, inflation is already compensated/transferred to other countries either by trade or by force. However, this already cause your middle class being gutted, while corporations are more prosperous than ever. Basically what Year of the Dog is observing in his office. That's why this hope for hyperinflation irks me, this hope for a sudden "the last will be first" thing. This is a time where the middle class should organize and help each others. This surely would be more pragmatic than waiting for a collapse.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 12:23:01 AM by dragondollar »

Offline SANDAC

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2012, 12:20:56 AM »
Real bullets and equipments are expended in war.  There are also the misallocation of resources, both manpower and capitals, to foreign countries.  Yes, war costs real money.  There are some profits, but that pale in comparison to the real cost.

Look at it in another way:  One could argue that natural disasters are good for a nation because they stimulate the construction business.  If that's true, then the poor country of Haiti should be very wealthy because that island nation is savaged by hurricanes every year.

If USA really want to invade for resources, we can easily go south toward Mexico and the resource rich South America.

Offline dragondollar

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2012, 12:45:21 AM »
These war expenditures are borne by the country, not the corporations. Invading for resources is a naive concept. You invade and put the bill on the country balance sheet, your corporate friends pocket handsome profits and convert it in real assets and more profits. Poor and middle class find it incomprehensibly more and more difficult to access to these real assets, but there is lot of profitable ways to keep them busy. The cheap dollars are always bought because the rest of the world still needs to use them. Your dominance over oil trade, the fact that shares in your very profitable corporations are traded in USD and that no other nation can fuck with you is all very enticing. Each printed dollar turned into foreign currency is basically inflation transferred (see the 2009 real estate bubble in China). So, this is all very oversimplifying, but if you get any additional natural resources out the wars, consider that an added bonus.

Offline badon

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2012, 02:38:40 AM »
That's why this hope for hyperinflation irks me, this hope for a sudden "the last will be first" thing. This is a time where the middle class should organize and help each others. This surely would be more pragmatic than waiting for a collapse.

True! Survivalists sometimes fall into that trap. Some of them are wealthy and successful, but the majority are no more than average, or below average. They hope to gain an advantage simply by being prepared for catastrophe. That's pretty wise, and it does happen sometimes, but unfortunately, it rarely goes as they envision it. The survivors with some sort of wealth squirrelled away usually get robbed by military forces foraging for supplies. You can't say no to an army.

Look at it in another way:  One could argue that natural disasters are good for a nation because they stimulate the construction business.  If that's true, then the poor country of Haiti should be very wealthy because that island nation is savaged by hurricanes every year.

https://www.google.com/search?q=broken+window+fallacy

Underbidder

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Re: China has announced a total of 8 trillion yuan stimulus
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2012, 02:47:09 AM »
True! Survivalists sometimes fall into that trap. Some of them are wealthy and successful, but the majority are no more than average, or below average. They hope to gain an advantage simply by being prepared for catastrophe. That's pretty wise, and it does happen sometimes, but unfortunately, it rarely goes as they envision it. The survivors with some sort of wealth squirrelled away usually get robbed by military forces foraging for supplies. You can't say no to an army.

https://www.google.com/search?q=broken+window+fallacy

No, you just have to be more clever than an army.  

Not too hard to do, actually.

Consider the makeup of an "army"

You don't think you cant out-think an "army"? Really?   :001_huh:











« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 02:56:10 AM by Underbidder »