Author Topic: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida  (Read 10603 times)

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Offline Birdman

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I attended the summer Florida Union of Numismatists (FUN) show in Orlando, Florida yesterday.  I thought I’d share a few observations.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of dealers and collectors at this show are focused on US coins, which has been an area of active collecting for decades.

The internet continues to hurt the coin shows in the US.  Others on this forum have noted that as coins become increasingly available on the internet, the coin show events become less significant.  This show was consistent with that.  As coin shows go, FUN events are typically large, drawing coin dealers from all over the nation.  Although it is true that the summer FUN shows are typically smaller than the winter shows (people want to visit warm Florida when it is cold in the rest of the country), this year’s summer FUN show was noticeably smaller than summer FUN shows of the last few years.  It was held in a convention hall space that seemed to be about 30% smaller than the space of previous years.

Demographic and Economic challenges are affecting the market for the collecting of US coins.  Overheard among dealers:   One dealer of US coins mentioned that he might not attend the show next year, owing to reduced size and activity of the show.  His colleague replied, “you can’t really fault this show, the whole market {for US coins} has been a bit slow.”  Later, a different dealer presented his hypothesis, paraphrased roughly as:  “The large “baby boomer” generation is retiring and dying.  The coin collections that they assembled over decades gets passed on to their kids, but the young generation isn’t as interested in coin collecting and many have big college debts and/or are underemployed, so they don’t have the money to expand on the collections.  Money challenges lead some who inherit the coin collections to sell the collection.  The net effect of this demographic and economic trend is that there is less demand for US coins and more supply available on the market, which puts downward pressure on prices.”

There was a lot of gray hair among attendees.  Although the mix of people at the show might be younger during the weekend, the average age of people on the first day of the show (Thursday) was fairly old.  I contrast this to photos I’ve seen of some of the Asian shows where young people are present in large numbers.  I admittedly don’t follow the market of US coins very closely, but my observations at this show bias me into thinking that the numismatic premium for common US coins will not be going up any time soon.  Having said that, buying “junk silver” US dimes, quarters, etc. for their bullion value, at low premiums, might be just fine (and I’ve done that).  On that note, I observed quite a lot of business done for gold and silver bullion at the show.  One guy was looking to buy 15 ounces of gold for his father-in-law!  He was going from dealer to dealer looking for the best price.

There were 7 dealers present who had significant offerings of Chinese coins.  All of them seemed to be buying, and from the comments made, it seemed that much of the material they bought would be heading to China.  I would definitely characterize it as selective buying.  A few dealers mentioned the turmoil associated with the Chinese stock market over the past several weeks and their uncertainty of how that would affect the coin market (would it increase demand, would it decrease demand?).  My sense was that some of the dealers were focusing their buying on key date pieces that they knew that they could immediately resell, and they were not being as aggressive with their offer prices for some of the less rare coins.  Perhaps they are waiting until they see some stability in the Chinese stock market and economy.

Quality Chinese coins are increasingly tough to find in the USA!  Although I was ready to buy coins at this show, I didn’t see much of what I was looking for in the glass cases of the dealers (in contrast to two or three years ago).  Indeed, I only saw two coins that I was looking for, and the dealers were asking quite strong prices for them.  So I left without buying, but I immediately got on the internet when I got home and am lining up some purchases.


Offline NBM

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 03:55:28 PM »
Your observations say much about the current state of affairs, thank you.
 N48

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2015, 02:46:25 PM »
I rarely come across Chinese coins and medals at local coin shows. I buy exclusively from online sources. The much hoped for expansion of the USA MCC collection base may take time to happen if at all it happens!
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Offline PandaCollector

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2015, 03:37:55 PM »
Nice report, thank you. At a recent coin show I overheard one U.S. coin dealer say to another in a crowded restroom, "There is more action in here than out there (the show floor)!"

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com


Offline pandamonium

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 09:09:32 PM »
I rarely come across Chinese coins and medals at local coin shows. I buy exclusively from online sources. The much hoped for expansion of the USA MCC collection base may take time to happen if at all it happens!


As usual, supply or inventory will be long gone before the herd grabs a clue.   We are very lucky to be on board.  I posted some time ago that the USD will drop in value so will rare US coins.   The Yuan will rise as will rare Chinese coins/medals.   My regret is i did not get into rare coins as suggested many times during my youth....big mistake......

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 11:41:32 PM »

I attended the summer Florida Union of Numismatists (FUN) show in Orlando, Florida yesterday.  I thought I’d share a few observations.

................

Demographic and Economic challenges are affecting the market for the collecting of US coins.  Overheard among dealers:   One dealer of US coins mentioned that he might not attend the show next year, owing to reduced size and activity of the show.  His colleague replied, “you can’t really fault this show, the whole market {for US coins} has been a bit slow.”  Later, a different dealer presented his hypothesis, paraphrased roughly as:  “The large “baby boomer” generation is retiring and dying.  The coin collections that they assembled over decades gets passed on to their kids, but the young generation isn’t as interested in coin collecting and many have big college debts and/or are underemployed, so they don’t have the money to expand on the collections.  Money challenges lead some who inherit the coin collections to sell the collection.  The net effect of this demographic and economic trend is that there is less demand for US coins and more supply available on the market, which puts downward pressure on prices.”

There was a lot of gray hair among attendees.  Although the mix of people at the show might be younger during the weekend, the average age of people on the first day of the show (Thursday) was fairly old.  I contrast this to photos I’ve seen of some of the Asian shows where young people are present in large numbers. ......................
...................

I am a "fringe" baby boomer, so I share in some of the following characterizations. I hope no one gets upset; it's science not my personal opinion!

The baby boomers are huge, narcissistic and fun loving! Born after the world wars their numbers fueled economic boom for the country for all those years in which they consumed all those milk formulas, diapers and toys until they hit the work force. Then they sucked out all the oxygen! It was hard to keep them all employed due to their numbers, not talking about other contiguous generations!

Fun loving (pot and sex), center of the universe and doted upon by all. Did not have time for their kids. So how could they transfer their numismatic interests to their kids? Transferring coins and medals is not enough. The child has to be brought into the coin collection world early and participate in the process. In fact any coins inherited should ideally be added to the offspring's stash, in which case they are likely to be protected and conveyed to the next generation.

I have a friend whose grandparents were coin collectors and transferred their collection to her father who was already collecting. He used to involve her in decision making as to which coin to buy and why. She has been collecting all these years and did not fritter away her inheritance. I introduced her to MCC and she has not bought anything else since then!

The baby boomer' kids are now the "helicopter parents" another "extreme" group. Highly protective of their kids but very good with them with respect to communication. The kids also listen and obey. So if our helicopter parents teach their kids numismatics they are likely to continue with the collection and not blow the whole stash. Now the problem is how to get the numismatic know-how to the "helicopter" parents!
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Offline jc888888888

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 06:23:09 PM »
I have a grave concern that if eBay is not cleaned up we are hurting our hobby in a big way ,all the new blood in  our hobby is buying these fakes and once they are disinterested with MCC and will walk away before they start 

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2015, 07:35:56 PM »
I have a grave concern that if eBay is not cleaned up we are hurting our hobby in a big way ,all the new blood in  our hobby is buying these fakes and once they are disinterested with MCC and will walk away before they start 

Amazon.com has a very small coin sales section. I wish they explicitly exclude fakes in which case business may migrate towards them and eBay will take notice.
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Offline pandamonium

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2015, 09:12:36 PM »
I called ebay about Chinese fakes.   They are well aware of fakes as the complaints keep coming in.   Hopefully some buyers demanded a refund from paypal.   That is about the only way i can see that ebay will stop listing them.   Ebay is making a killing on fees selling fakes so why stop?.......

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2015, 11:25:56 PM »
I called ebay about Chinese fakes.   They are well aware of fakes as the complaints keep coming in.   Hopefully some buyers demanded a refund from paypal.   That is about the only way i can see that ebay will stop listing them.   Ebay is making a killing on fees selling fakes so why stop?.......

Why stop? Because that is a short sighted business strategy. Remember Blockbuster video rentals? Always hitting you with late fees even when one second late! Their customers deserted in droves when the laid back Netflix come on stream. If eBay doesn't change and some other outfit provides us with a fake-free platform for researching and buying MCC you bet all those dollars they are now earning from fake panda sales will become real fake fast!
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Offline aragog

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Re: Observations from the summer F.U.N. show in Orlando, Florida
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2015, 10:48:27 AM »
Nice report, thank you. At a recent coin show I overheard one U.S. coin dealer say to another in a crowded restroom, "There is more action in here than out there (the show floor)!"

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com


Haha, that made my day !! :-)))