Author Topic: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online  (Read 6856 times)

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Offline Dachs

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Hello Collectors!

The results of the April Hong Kong auction of Stacks & Bowers are now online:

http://www.stacksbowers.com/Research/Lot…09/Default.aspx

Did anybody attend the auction?

Regards, Dachs

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 09:00:54 AM »
Hello Collectors!

The results of the April Hong Kong auction of Stacks & Bowers are now online:

http://www.stacksbowers.com/Research/Lot…09/Default.aspx

Did anybody attend the auction?

Regards, Dachs

broken URL.

Offline Dachs

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 09:12:46 AM »
I am sorry about that, please go at the homepage of Stacks & Bowers. There you will find all necessary informations.

Offline SANDAC

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Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2014, 11:02:01 AM »
MCC starts with lot #30221

http://www.stacksbowers.com/BrowseAuctions/LotArchive.aspx?AuctionID=6009&Lot=30221

Good lord, that is a short leaf (rare variety)! Sold for US$400? :scared:

Offline 1668Chris

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Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 01:42:12 PM »
This is alot of money for an unconfirmed pattern  N8 N8 N8

http://www.stacksbowers.com/BrowseAuctions/LotArchive/tabid/805/ProductID/772459/AuctionID/6009/Lot/30491/Default.aspx

“April 2014 April Hong Kong Lot #30491

CHINA. 25 Yuan Bimetallic Pattern, 1996. Unicorn Series.

Price Realized: $59,750.00

This piece has been sent to both PCGS and NGC, neither of which were inclined to condemn or certify it, due to its either its extreme rarity or enigmatic origins. However, after careful study we believe it to be a genuine product of the China Mint which has yet to be published.”


The buyer must have alot of faith in the auctioneer. N8 Reminds me of a quote:

“Always believe in the auctioneer because there are some questions that even PCGS or NGC can't answer.” - unknown :001_rolleyes:


Offline bonke

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 08:40:07 PM »
It was my pleasure to have the opportunity to see this pattern bimetal unicorn.

The bidding was very active in the auction room, starting low and slowly rising, as multiple bidders tried to buy it.

It is hard to imagine the price which will be realized in a future auction if and when NGC does get the information required from the mint to authenticate this pattern coin. 

Imagine having a collection which is composed of this pattern coin alone.  It would a collection which I would be proud to own. 

Mark Bonke 

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 11:23:54 PM »
It was my pleasure to have the opportunity to see this pattern bimetal unicorn.

The bidding was very active in the auction room, starting low and slowly rising, as multiple bidders tried to buy it.

It is hard to imagine the price which will be realized in a future auction if and when NGC does get the information required from the mint to authenticate this pattern coin. 

Imagine having a collection which is composed of this pattern coin alone.  It would a collection which I would be proud to own. 

Mark Bonke 

Can bidder examine the coin closely to see the details?

Based on the pictures posted as website, I am in totally agreement with NGC and PCGS. The coin is highly questionable as shown in the attached pictures copied from website and enlarged section pictures vs. 1995. First three pictures are 1996 questionable pattern coin. The fourth picture is 1995.

Offline bonke

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 12:25:24 AM »
Yes, there was a chance to examine this pattern coin closely.

I do not know what the pattern coin should look like.  I own the 1994 and 1995 bimetal unicorn coins.  I own many of the bimetal panda coins and medals.  When I held it and looked at it, I felt "comfortable" with it.  Is it authentic?  Obviously, the experts at NGC and PCGS could not confirm authenticity.  I will never have their expertise.  If I owned it, would I be pleased?  Yes.  If someone else indicated it was not authentic, would I care?  No.  Over time, the authenticity will be resolved.  NGC contacts at the various Chinese Mints are too good for issues such as this to remain unresolved for long.

Mark Bonke

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 12:36:29 AM »
Can bidder examine the coin closely to see the details?

Based on the pictures posted as website, I am in totally agreement with NGC and PCGS. The coin is highly questionable as shown in the attached pictures copied from website and enlarged section pictures vs. 1995. First three pictures are 1996 questionable pattern coin. The fourth picture is 1995.

After looking and comparing the pictures provided by poco, I have 2 possible conclusions:

1) The so-called "rare variety" is actually a weak strike. Does weak strike constitute rarity? I don't think so.

2) It is an imitation of almost 100% likeness by a private mint.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 07:01:25 AM »
Yes, there was a chance to examine this pattern coin closely.

I do not know what the pattern coin should look like.  I own the 1994 and 1995 bimetal unicorn coins.  I own many of the bimetal panda coins and medals.  When I held it and looked at it, I felt "comfortable" with it.  Is it authentic?  Obviously, the experts at NGC and PCGS could not confirm authenticity.  I will never have their expertise.  If I owned it, would I be pleased?  Yes.  If someone else indicated it was not authentic, would I care?  No.  Over time, the authenticity will be resolved.  NGC contacts at the various Chinese Mints are too good for issues such as this to remain unresolved for long.

Mark Bonke

Time is good for healing physical wounds and emotional hurts, but not authenticity. N2

Genuine things won't turn fake over time. Fake things won't turn genuine over time. N25

Offline 1668Chris

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 09:09:11 AM »
Can bidder examine the coin closely to see the details?

Based on the pictures posted as website, I am in totally agreement with NGC and PCGS. The coin is highly questionable as shown in the attached pictures copied from website and enlarged section pictures vs. 1995. First three pictures are 1996 questionable pattern coin. The fourth picture is 1995.


I have learned from poconopenn over the years....interesting how the stack's unicorn lacks the three dimensional detail vs the authentic 1995 (maybe its lighting)

Also, $60K is strictly a gamble for a possible "fantasy" coin.  I would much rather wait for clarification and pay up for the real thing.  Also, I find it hard to believe that someone could not assist NGC or PCGS with the coin.  Martin would possibly know if its real given his historical background with the unicorn series.  Clearly the seller could not assist either TPG or provide docs to support which would, in my mind, seriously question its origin.

Offline Contrapunctus

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2014, 09:33:07 AM »
Just to point out, if it turns out to be fake, it's $60k down the drain!!! The auctioneer does not accept return, even if it is fake! :scared:

"SOLD AS IS/NO RETURNS."

Offline SANDAC

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Re: Stacks Bowers Hong Kong Auction April 2014 - results are online
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2014, 11:05:33 AM »

I have learned from poconopenn over the years....interesting how the stack's unicorn lacks the three dimensional detail vs the authentic 1995 (maybe its lighting)

Also, $60K is strictly a gamble for a possible "fantasy" coin.  I would much rather wait for clarification and pay up for the real thing.  Also, I find it hard to believe that someone could not assist NGC or PCGS with the coin.  Martin would possibly know if its real given his historical background with the unicorn series.  Clearly the seller could not assist either TPG or provide docs to support which would, in my mind, seriously question its origin.

The auction house estimated a value of $3000 to $5000, so $60K is certainly unexpected.  Now I think it is even less likely that NGC/PCGS is willing to guarantee a $60K coin with a grading fee of $125 unless very solid documentation can be located.

I would agree an EDM duplication process may explain the lost of details, but I'm struggling to find a bi-metallic pattern that matches exactly the texts of the outer rings.  There are not that many bi-metallic made so it is not hard to search thru them all and I can't find a matching pattern.  Actually I was hoping to find a matching pattern after 1996 thus proving the coin was made after 1996 and therefore a fake, but that search was not successful.  If it is a forgery, it is done with truly frightening skill and at $60K more of the forged coins are likely to show up.