Author Topic: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."  (Read 1014 times)

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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2017, 03:22:59 PM »
+1

CCL, of course I agree with your assessment. Being a relatively new member here (i.e., not having been around when KOT first started acquiring medals), you have not been privy to his change of strategy over time. I was trying to point out that he was a quite an idealistic collector early on and, through experience, he has realized that there's more to making purchases that just finding something you like. Although he may still call himself a collector, he may be acting more like an investor these days. In truth, he and I don't communicate much through private message so I am assuming this maturation based on his public posts.

Sorry, this is very of topic! Done now :)

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 08:28:08 AM »
Here is the link, http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-visualization-2017/.  It is a great visualization except for the derivative graphic which is misleading and geared to confuse and panic the average reader.  Derivatives notional value can be large but its exposure tiny. 

For example:
$100K I can buy 78 oz of gold in the cash bullion
$100K I can control 2000 oz of gold in the futures market

When comparing the above two scenarios derivative contract looks very risky because it is levered 25 to 1 and this is the perception that gold bugs want you to see.  The reality is very different, very small percentage of the derivative market buys the future contract as shown above.  Instead a strategy could be to go long the December 2017 contract and short March 2018 contract, this spread trade would allow you to control 6000-8000 oz of gold with $100K, the risk of this trade is similar compared to 78 oz cash bullion trade, yet visual magnitude graph shows the derivative trade with 90 boxes (7000oz/78oz) vs 1 box for cash bullion trade. 




Don't underestimate the destructive power of derivatives or weapons of financial destruction.    Many, many articles on derivatives...

You mentioned lack of gold panda supply.     You sell a lot of gold pandas!      Could you give more details on low gold panda supply and other MCC?.......

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 09:32:05 AM »
Supply from strong hands is very low simply, because prices are not rising, nobody wants to sell something they know they can't replace. 

A big glut of coins came out April-June time period due to gold sheet, many dealers called old customers and brought new supply to market which they had previously viewed as bullion.   That was great time to buy or trade out for higher quality numismatic coins for many of us, I sold common date proof sets so I could own a few more 1/2s.  Now most of the supply in the US is exhausted and it is hard to find  much of anything in high quality (condition and rarity).  There is tons of bullion coins floating around, but those have no buyers even at few percent over melt. 

October-December mainland dealers subscribe to new coin issues, they have to prepay to secure orders, orders arrive in November-January, they sell and use the proceeds to buy back dated material January-April.  It is a cycle that repeats itself over and over.   The other challenge is between Thanksgiving and new years it is risky to ship in the US, packages seems to get lost due to high volume, so I typically sell very little during that time.  I tell all my customers if they want to sell they must do it before Nov 15.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 10:22:02 AM »
CCL, of course I agree with your assessment. Being a relatively new member here (i.e., not having been around when KOT first started acquiring medals), you have not been privy to his change of strategy over time. I was trying to point out that he was a quite an idealistic collector early on and, through experience, he has realized that there's more to making purchases that just finding something you like. Although he may still call himself a collector, he may be acting more like an investor these days. In truth, he and I don't communicate much through private message so I am assuming this maturation based on his public posts.

Sorry, this is very of topic! Done now :)

People have argued themselves until they were blue in the face about who was a collector and who was an investor. I believe the lines are blurred because both are in search of value. It may turn out that both terms describe the same individual with the difference being the intensity of the drive for value. This is not different from other areas of collection such as art and wine. An astute collector is an investor because he tries to avoid collecting items that depreciate in value. However, he or she may from time to time splurge on items they KNOW may not rise in value.

I bought bullion in the late 1990s as a SHTF strategy. Eventually it turned into an accidentally nice investment!

When I started collecting MCC in recent years I bought coins initially before including medals. Now I collect both. I also tried to sell some and the experience added immensely to my growth as a collector. This was in addition to every other thing I learnt in this forum and elsewhere. I am still learning and may never know all there is to the hobby (or business). But the insight I have now is that it is not enough that you like a coin or medal; being a “Collector” does not absolve an individual from routinely making purchases that don’t hold or increase their value. You become a better collector with time and experience, which probably means that your collection has now become an investment with an increased chance of yielding more cash than was spent in their acquisition if they were sold in future.

Yes I am growing under your very eyes!  N17
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 10:35:31 AM »
KOT you are learning as you go and improving in this small market.     I will never invest in rare wine after 60 minutes did a show on fake wines w/ super high prices.      Gambling on wine then finding out it is a fake will make any investor/collector whine.....
More are buying medals now so maybe they will become relevant and opinions will change.   Time will tell.    Keep at it, you are getting ahead..

Arif;    November to January is post office rip off months.    I have lost $ thousands to post office thieves.     As stated earlier i contacted the FBI twice and the postal inspector many times w/ zero results.      Temporary post office employees during Holiday season are the problem and then the postal inspectors said the people have no clue how much mail is stolen in the US.     Why no post office accountability?    Cameras?       Maybe if the seller requests and pays for registered/insured it will be safe to mail.....
Maybe the dealers are sitting on the best MCC?    Those that need cash are selling rarely seen MCC like 84 silver goldfish.       I see many new issue, copper or brass, etc... and fewer early year MCC in gold/silver.......

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2017, 02:05:53 PM »
I sure am learning a lot reading these posts.  Keep on trying makes many valid points.  Thanks for the tips to keep in mind when buying coins or medals. 
And I see there is a new medal called 'coin of the year'.  Does anyone really buy these private issued medals?  They seem to be coming out every day.  Do they increase in value over time?  Does anyone have historical evidence on what happens to the price of these privately sponsored medals?  Is it a good investment longer term (10 plus years)? All these different types of pandas coming out can't be good for the market, can they? Curious.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 03:43:31 PM »
The future is unknown, collectingcoins. I have not purchased a medal since 2013, and never a private mint medal, and I do not intend to do so. I can think of many better uses for that money, which have (IMO) greater chances to produce a positive ROI for me,  or greater levels of immediate happiness.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 06:05:47 PM »
There are enough medals coming from official mints that I don't even consider private medals as a viable item to collect, IMO they are only worth 90% of melt (bid) and 105% of melt (ask) at most.  They can be produced in unlimited quantity and variations with no oversight.

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 07:54:32 PM »
Isn't it best to stick with coins, and collectible coins verses show medals and generic medals?  That's the thought I've been taking away from reading as much as I can from this wonderful site.  I don't understand the difference between official mints and private mints.  Can someone please explain?  Can anyone sponsor a medal at either an official mint or private?  What makes the medal more appealing at the official mint verses the private mint?  I'm not sure I understand the comment about '90% of melt (bid) and 105% (ask) at most.'  Can someone give an example?  Sorry for the stupid questions.  I'm not too interested in medals. I have seen some pretty ones pop up on eBay, but I've stayed away.  I saw someone reference what is called a Garden Panda and this new one called coin of the year Panda.  They look interesting, but based on what I read from KeyDate, it is not a good idea to even consider these.  The message seems pretty clear to me, stay away from show medals (recent) and all other medals, especially those minted at a private mint. Is there a thread that explains the difference between an official and private mint and why one is better than the other? I need stick with coins, which I've been doing.  I've been buy gold pandas, and I'm not disappointed. I'm actually quite happy.  Although I may be disappointed if and when I send them off to a grading service.  There may be tears of sadness. lol. 

Offline ccl

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 08:13:49 PM »
yes

Offline pandamonium

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Re: "Asia Now Has More Billionaires Than the U.S."
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2017, 08:53:42 AM »
As stated earlier i love medals and coins.      Not all early medals are trash even from private mints.     Early official issue panda medals are worth collecting.      Feng Yunming's  National Arts and Crafts semi official medals will have value when a publication comes out as he is the Grandfather of medals.      A newer private mint are cherished like the 2012?  Nine Sons of Dragon large silvers.    I never see them on ebay.     It is no longer black and white of coins and medals but some are in a grey area and worth owning.   The artist is important.....   
Due to the flood of new issue medals (I like them all but own none) the market is diluted and will get worse.     The new issue medals i like are the Color Silver Lunars from Prestige Gold Panda sets 03 to 12?     New issue medals will bring attention to the early issue medals.       It is always good to have a mix of medals and coins.....
Peter says there are now 5 Official Mints.    Nanjing is 4th and i cannot recall the name of 5th.     I know there is a lot of disagreement w/ my opinion but early issue medals that have relevance are very undervalued.     The mintage of early issue medals is very low compared to coins.     For example the HK Expo silver pandas have mostly 1,000 planned mint w/ one at 1,500 and one at 2,000 mint.....