Author Topic: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money  (Read 10044 times)

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Offline Championhk

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2017, 03:25:19 AM »
Hello,panda Berlin

There is a brass set for distribution at the panda turnover ceremony and there is a set of silver that anyone can buy from kunker in Germany. Also if you do not want to spend more than 100 euros you can get the Berlin mint version for 10 euro.

The Sino German medal is not a show medal it is design to meet the needs of friendship bewtween china and Germany and the panda turnover ceremony. You seem to have a policy that everything should be distribute for your needs if that is the case I am sure you can get whatever your need from mdm as they will sell you items from a few irons to 100,000 euro.

Does mdm report to you on what their distribution polices are if you are so unhappy with the products perhaps you can voice your needs to world money fair CEO Jens who used to work for mdm and was the manager of the Munich pandas for many years? I feel strongly we have do as much as we can to promote the issues to locals collecting pubic while some issues are not as easy to obtain as others this is problem many face  today. At Denver Ana I try to get one of the special surface sets from the us mint booth but was told the entire 225,000 mintage was sold out , I feel the distribution policy was not favorable to me , but many people obtain the sets , so I just have to get them on the secondary market.






Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #121 on: August 15, 2017, 03:34:17 AM »
Well, again my question: Why is there a free brass set (which will go up in value) for VIPs and an expensive silver set (which will probably go down in value) for collectors?

Just one remark about your question:


Does mdm report to you on what their distribution polices?


Actually, they don't. But you can ask any German collector what they think about MDM ... MDM has the lowest possible reputation and no serious collector would even think of considering them as a legitimate dealer. But when it comes to the modern Panda medals, we are talking about official mint products which are highly respected ... and I think that also Champion Auction was highly respected before starting this scheme of rewarding friends and family with award-style Panda medals while the regular collector has to stand in line and pay much money for items that will go down in pricing very soon.

Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2017, 03:37:26 AM »
I feel strongly we have do as much as we can to promote the issues to locals collecting pubic while some issues are not as easy to obtain as others this is problem many face  today.

I feel that you are in fact doing the opposite of that ... at least I don't see that anybody in Germany is applauding those "friendship" medals ... and I see the reason in the distribution policy that became very apparent during this forum discussion.

Offline Championhk

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #123 on: August 15, 2017, 05:18:09 AM »
Sorry you feel this way , we just have move on . All the parties involved feel very good about the project and look forward to additional synergy in the future . Please have a nice day .

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #124 on: August 15, 2017, 08:55:30 AM »
Sorry you feel this way , we just have move on . All the parties involved feel very good about the project and look forward to additional synergy in the future . Please have a nice day .

Your story has been very convoluted but within it is information clearly demonstrating the contribution of your company to the current upheaval in Chinese medal collection; with so many medal variants and almost illogical and random manner of distribution and the opacity of your operations. I haven't read anything you wrote that restores faith that is being eroded.

It is usually best to identify whoever you feel is being disingenuous in our conversations. If you are not willing to do so do not make blanket accusations because is drops the quality of the conversation unless that is what you intended.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline sdd1jmc

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #125 on: August 15, 2017, 09:27:19 AM »
Not too change the subject but I was able to purchase 2 enhanced uncirculated sets from the US mint both on the last day of the ANA show.

Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #126 on: August 15, 2017, 09:52:20 AM »
It is usually best to identify whoever you feel is being disingenuous in our conversations. If you are not willing to do so do not make blanket accusations because is drops the quality of the conversation unless that is what you intended.

@"KeepOnTrying!": I totally agree with that. I also felt kind of offended by this general accusation. I am not a dealer and not affiliated with any dealers. I am friends with two regular staff members of the Berlin Mint, who were not involved in the production of the Panda medals. And after "having a nice day" with some time thinking about this discussion, I feel that "Championhk" has not answered any of the central questions.

In fact, I would have been very happy to hear some clarifying words, but I have the impression that under the disguise of "numismatic friendship", those Yu Min show panda medals seem like a big moneymaking machine which will destroy the fascinating Panda medal market within an instance - and you can already see the effects of this policy when you look up the current prices for the show pandas.

ANY of the "numismatic friends" who bought the medals directly at the show or for a fixed price at dealers like Kuenker, ModernCoinMart, Apmex and others, will lose money in the coming months, because the items are overpriced and because there is a huge load of varieties that no regular collector can manage to obtain.

Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #127 on: August 15, 2017, 10:08:06 AM »
I would like to add my last statement with the following example of the World Money Fair 2017 in Berlin.

Two versions were sold at the show to the general public:

1. One ounce Silver (Mintage: 1000)
2. Eight gram Silver (Mintage: 1000)

Those versions were not sold at the show, but distributed to undisclosed recipients:

3. One ounce Gold (Mintage: 20)
4. Copper Piedfort (Mintage: 150) -> as far as I understood, they were distributed at some VIP party dinner during World Money Fair
5. Brass Piedfort (Mintage: 46) -> no idea where they went
6. Tri-Metallic High-Relief (Mintage: 500) -> there is also a variety with and without reeded edge
7. Tri-Metallic High Relief Piedfort Sample (Mintage: 10)

Those versions were not sold at the show, but appeared without further notice on eBay (especially via ModernCoinMart):

8. Fifty gram Silver (Mintage: 300) -> asking price on ebay is around 2.000 euros
9. Piedfort Concave Silver 16 gramm (Mintage: 300)
10. Mini Panda 8g Gold Proof (Mintage: 100) -> asking price around 800 euros
11. Mini Panda 16g Gold Proof (Mintage: 30) -> asking price around 1600 euros

Now I wonder how the other forum members feel about this inflation of weights and dimensions, which add up to 11 different versions of a single medal for a single event.

Offline collectingcoins

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #128 on: August 15, 2017, 10:45:30 AM »
How I feel about it?  I'm staying away from show medals from this point forward.  This has been an education, and I'm dumbfounded.  No more for me.  I'm sticking with what many of you have been educating me on: Older gold or silver pre 2010 govt issued bullion coins.  This has been a fascinating journey as a newbie.  I'm shocked. Keepontrying hit the nail on the head about making accusations, but not highlighting names.  It appears this person is trying to disparage others, while putting themselves and partner on a pedestal.  Well, as far as I'm concerned, it back fired.  No more for me. 

Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #129 on: August 15, 2017, 02:19:47 PM »
Wow ... I just discovered another intriguing detail:

Didn't "Championhk" just tell that all the 2017 Sino-German friendship brass medals were distributed among VIPs some strange "zoo ceremony" in Berlin?

Well, then 90 of those VIPs obviously took a group trip to NGC right after the ceremony ... because 90 of the 1500 pieces are already have an NGC grade:

https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/china-panda-series/sc-367/brass/

Just keep in mind: The ceremony took place less than two months ago. And the medals were distributed in raw form, without being graded.

Not to mention, "Championhk" offers several of the "never available to the public" brass medals in his very own summer auction...

...so, dear "Championhk", please stop making a fool of everybody in this forum !!!

Offline Jens

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #130 on: August 15, 2017, 05:21:15 PM »
How I feel about it?  I'm staying away from show medals from this point forward.  This has been an education, and I'm dumbfounded.  No more for me.  I'm sticking with what many of you have been educating me on: Older gold or silver pre 2010 govt issued bullion coins.  This has been a fascinating journey as a newbie.  I'm shocked. Keepontrying hit the nail on the head about making accusations, but not highlighting names.  It appears this person is trying to disparage others, while putting themselves and partner on a pedestal.  Well, as far as I'm concerned, it back fired.  No more for me. 

This seems to me is the most sensible thing to do at this point, unfortunately. It's what i'll also do.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #131 on: August 15, 2017, 05:46:42 PM »
pandaberlin,

+1

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing information. The transparency is one of the important factor for collectors in determining if they want to purchasing the item they like. Many sponsors of the medals promote their items in this forum. Sometimes, they do not fully disclose, including the relationship to the items. IMO, the sponsors will never disclose the distribution channels.


Offline pandamonium

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #132 on: August 15, 2017, 06:28:17 PM »
How I feel about it?  I'm staying away from show medals from this point forward.  This has been an education, and I'm dumbfounded.  No more for me.  I'm sticking with what many of you have been educating me on: Older gold or silver pre 2010 govt issued bullion coins.  This has been a fascinating journey as a newbie.  I'm shocked. Keepontrying hit the nail on the head about making accusations, but not highlighting names.  It appears this person is trying to disparage others, while putting themselves and partner on a pedestal.  Well, as far as I'm concerned, it back fired.  No more for me. 



When you get to know seasoned collectors/dealers they will point you in the direction of early year, starting 1979 for MCC.      Early year, low mintage and high grade.       Vintage coins maybe the wild card as some are over 100 yrs old like the Empire silvers.     Who knows which segment of this market will end up on top but we will soon find out.......

Offline bonke

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #133 on: August 15, 2017, 06:56:10 PM »
As a collector, I purchased one of the Berlin medals (16 gram piefort gold panda) from MCM.  At the time, I struggled with the price (premium over spot).  With the low mintage (30), I worried and worried and finally decided to spend the money and add this Berlin medal to my collection.  I did not realize the gold piefort was just one of a multitude of medals commemorating this event in Berlin.  Fortunately, I did not purchase the other gold, silver, brass, tri-metallic, etc., medals for this event.

The discussion on the coin forum as been very helpful to me as a collector of modern Chinese "show pandas" or what I (as an old collector) call "modern Chinese medals".  With the gold and silver medals released for the Singapore, Philadelphia and Berlin coin shows a few years ago, the market for these medals has grown and grown.  This created an opportunity for the modern Chinese coin dealers to make some money off of these events, and has helped them weather the storm of a long-term decline in the market for modern Chinese coins.  Their activities are understandable.

As a collector, I have to face reality and stop purchasing these new issues (without regard to the event they are commemorating).  I can no longer avoid and deny the information provided on this China coin forum.

Mark Bonke

Offline pandaberlin

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Re: New Panda Commemorative for the Denver 2017 ANA World's Fair of Money
« Reply #134 on: August 16, 2017, 12:55:17 AM »
@Bonke: Hi Marc. I want to thank you for your personal insight and honest words. I would totally be okay with the fact that some dealers want to make money. But they should not fool collectors by showing off their projects as "non-profit" and by adding another medal variety every three days.

The folks at "Championhk" always highlight the "friendship" aspect of their work, but honestly: Do you treat friends like this? Ripping off more and more money from your friends? Telling your friends more and more stories ("medals were given to children") that are at least highly doubtful?

Well, I know that friendships sometimes work like this, but I still take the freedom to feel disgusted by that. And to make it clear once again: I am not a hater or enemy or competitor of "Championkh" or any other dealers on this forum. I am a regular collector, just like most of the people on the CCF.

I originally just wanted to give my "two cents" on the discussion, but I felt personally offended by the arrogant way that "Championhk" dealt with the situation, so I looked into the matter in depth - this might be a negative character trait, but this is what I always do when people try to dumbfool me. And as you all read, there are many details surrounding the work of the "Championhk" organisation that I find highly irritating...as well as the communication of the Champion guys here on the forum.