Topic: Huang Ruiyong's medal ranking list

[mmissinglink]

The other thing that seems to be a mystery regarding the various rare Great Wall medals of the mid 1980's is that in some auction descriptions, the medal depicted here http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4488.0;attach=8967 is described as "the first medal in Great Wall Series" ( http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10276783) but the medal depicted here:  http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4488.0;attach=8963  is noted as Version 1.

Can anyone clarify these seemingly confusing differences?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[fwang2450]

Hi all,

I just discovered this thread and downloaded the Huang Ruiyong list.

Please do inform me if you know; under the "Silver Medals" section on the first line which notes, "1982 5oz Great Wall first version (mirror), 1987 5oz Great Wall second version"......is that description correct in terms of year and weight? Or is that item supposed to be the 1984 3.3 oz. medal and the 1985 3.3 oz medal that other members on other threads here have mentioned and posted pictures of (like in this thread: http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=4488.0 ?

It's quite confusing to me.

The weight was wrong in the list for download, which I corrected on my blog at http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/. The years should be right. There are different opinions on the years, though. Your medal should be the 1987 "correct" version.

[mmissinglink]

The weight was wrong in the list for download, which I corrected on my blog at http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/. The years should be right. There are different opinions on the years, though. Your medal should be the 1987 "correct" version.

Thank you for the link to your blog, fwang....I will read it soon. Wow, so the medal I shared may in fact be a 1987 medal? Are there knowledgeable people who actually know the specifics and actual true details about these mysterious 1980's Great Wall medals? Because right now, it seems there is so much confusion including auctions that are describing the medals without the inscription below the Great Wall on the obverse as being "1984". At the same time, other writings state that the variation I have (with the inscription of Chinese characters on the obverse) and the correct spelling on reverse is "version 1".

Is there any real authority on the specifics of these Great Wall medals? Is anyone compiling the research to get a definitive answer as to the year and versions and variations?

Afterall, it would seem that if Huang Ruiyong had chosen this medal as the very top of the category of all other silver MCC's then the MCC collector/investor community should clamour for real clarity on the Great Wall medals of the 1980's....yes?

Thank you for any insight on this you can share.

[mmissinglink]

Hi fwang,

I read through several pages of your blog posts including your article, "Star (Ranking) List of Modern Chinese Coins" and I was left more confused than ever because I did not see the "Great Wall" medal on this list as I did here in the first post in this forum thread. I also did not see mention of the "5 oz" description being a mistake that was corrected.

Thanks for helping me understand better.

[mmissinglink]

The other thing is that if these Great Wall medals are actually 1982 and 1987 (as opposed to 1984), then why are grading companies like NGC and PCGS grading them as "1984"? That makes no sense to me at all. If, for example, NGC has some MCC experts there, then shouldn't these folks have the latest and best information available and therefore wouldn't the "1984" description be the correct one?

Am I the only one who is so perplexed by the uncertainty of the details about these coveted medals?

[fwang2450]

Hi fwang,

I read through several pages of your blog posts including your article, "Star (Ranking) List of Modern Chinese Coins" and I was left more confused than ever because I did not see the "Great Wall" medal on this list as I did here in the first post in this forum thread. I also did not see mention of the "5 oz" description being a mistake that was corrected.

Thanks for helping me understand better.

Huang has two lists, one for coins, which you mentioned in your message, and the other for medals, which you should check, at this address: http://modern-chinese-numismatic-info.blogspot.com/2012/11/huang-ruiyong-olive-is-one-of-pioneers.html. Please note that in Chinese, coins with denomination are different from medals without denomination. That's why he provided two separate lists.

[fwang2450]

The other thing is that if these Great Wall medals are actually 1982 and 1987 (as opposed to 1984), then why are grading companies like NGC and PCGS grading them as "1984"? That makes no sense to me at all. If, for example, NGC has some MCC experts there, then shouldn't these folks have the latest and best information available and therefore wouldn't the "1984" description be the correct one?

Am I the only one who is so perplexed by the uncertainty of the details about these coveted medals?

You are not the only one. Many are. There are just too many stories about early MCCs. Each authority has their references, which might be right or wrong. As Huang said, sometimes you need to look into the production records at the mints and the records of distributors in addition to the official catalogs to determine the mintage or the year. The problem is that medals were not strictly controlled. When to restrike, how many, for whom, these are all difficult questions to answer. If you check the threads on pagoda and gold fish medals, you will see similar issues. NGC is pretty late to the Chinese market and they have a lot to learn.

[mmissinglink]

You are not the only one. Many are. There are just too many stories about early MCCs. Each authority has their references, which might be right or wrong. As Huang said, sometimes you need to look into the production records at the mints and the records of distributors in addition to the official catalogs to determine the mintage or the year. The problem is that medals were not strictly controlled. When to restrike, how many, for whom, these are all difficult questions to answer. If you check the threads on pagoda and gold fish medals, you will see similar issues. NGC is pretty late to the Chinese market and they have a lot to learn.

Okay, that's good to know. Thank you.

So, would you recommend that if I purchase any MCC's that are not graded and I want them graded that PCGS is the better grading company to turn to? If not, which company is the best authority for grading MCCs?

[fwang2450]

Okay, that's good to know. Thank you.

So, would you recommend that if I purchase any MCC's that are not graded and I want them graded that PCGS is the better grading company to turn to? If not, which company is the best authority for grading MCCs?

For modern Chinese coins, NGC is a better choice. A lot more MCCs are graded by NGC than by PCGS. PCGS is more trusted for old Chinese coins.

[dobedo]

These coin/medal ranking lists remind me of the college ranking lists. The numeric ranks, rank and test scores, or stars seem to make them more objective than they really are, but some people like me are still suckers of those lists. Armed with these lists, all the sudden I am some sort of experts just like Huang or Ge or Frank ... or wannabe anyway.

Happy new year, and hopefully more new ranking lists! I can't wait.

[mmissinglink]

dobedo,

From what I can tell from doing some simple Google searches and reading in this forum, and I'm new to coin collecting, Huang Ruiyong is a respected scholar and bonafide expert in his field. Therefore, one would surmise that his lists are a result of his knowledge and expertise, not just some sort of haphazard guesses or emotional feelings. Is Huang Ruiyong partial to one particular coin/medal simply because he owns many of that particular coin/medal as you seem to be suggesting? I doubt it very much....just look at how diverse his lists are....do you think he owns all of these items in plenty?

As for me, I would and will never even joke about being an expert just because I can read someone like Huang Ruiyong's list. I think such expert's lists are very serious and helpful to many collectors.  For anyone who owns coins that Huang Ruiyong has ranked high, I am happy for them. Most people who own highly prized coins and medals probably worked hard or spent good money to acquire them....there's nothing wrong with honest hard work.

Cheers!

[fwang2450]

These coin/medal ranking lists remind me of the college ranking lists. The numeric ranks, rank and test scores, or stars seem to make them more objective than they really are, but some people like me are still suckers of those lists. Armed with these lists, all the sudden I am some sort of experts just like Huang or Ge or Frank ... or wannabe anyway.

Happy new year, and hopefully more new ranking lists! I can't wait.

I am a total newbie. Translation does not make me an expert :)

[poconopenn]

Currently, Mr. Huang is in charge of coin department at EPAMA Auction House at Shanghai. He also makes many appearances at investment talk shows. As coin collector, I will consider his book as one of the source of information, but definitely not the only source. There are many books in the market. The books mentioned in the following thread are good source of information.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=6707.0

[fwang2450]

mmissinglink,

Congratulations again on owning the top ranking medal. Huang Ruiyong is one of the top MCC collectors, but his lists are based on the criteria he lists in his book. There were some controversies on some coins at the auctions that he managed, but he has not been known to hoard coins ranking high on his lists. Top ranking coins/medals are difficult to hoard anyway because of their high price and rarity. The person known to own 97% of all MCC coins (excluding medals) is King Chan in Hong Kong.

[pandaccumulator]

mmissinglink,

Congratulations again on owning the top ranking medal. Huang Ruiyong is one of the top MCC collectors, but his lists are based on the criteria he lists in his book. There were some controversies on some coins at the auctions that he managed, but he has not been known to hoard coins ranking high on his lists. Top ranking coins/medals are difficult to hoard anyway because of their high price and rarity. The person known to own 97% of all MCC coins (excluding medals) is King Chan in Hong Kong.

97% of all owned by one person? Or just certain category of rare MCC?