Author Topic: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only  (Read 5301 times)

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Offline Panda Halves

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NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« on: January 17, 2012, 08:38:52 AM »
NGC is no longer going to allow PCGS coins to compete on the World Coin Registry.  :ohmy:
This is pretty big news.
Change takes effect on 31JAN12.

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2576&NGC-World-Coin-Registry

Although I must admit that I am biased toward NGC, I think this is a very smart move by NGC and at the right time.

PH
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 08:51:28 AM by Panda Halves »

Offline PandaOrLunar

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 12:42:07 PM »
Besides bragging rights, big red sign "come and rob me because I have these great coins", and maybe couple of free grading, what benefit is there to the registry?

Offline GDG's

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 03:12:28 PM »
NGC is no longer going to allow PCGS coins to compete on the World Coin Registry.  :ohmy:
This is pretty big news.
Change takes effect on 31JAN12.

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=2576&NGC-World-Coin-Registry

>>>Although I must admit that I am biased toward NGC, I think this is a very smart move by NGC and at the right time. <<<

PH

What makes this a smart move? I think they are doing it only because PCGS does it and now feel they are big enough to go on their own. No big thing.

PandaOrLunar  >>>Besides bragging rights, big red sign "come and rob me because I have these great coins", and maybe couple of free grading, what benefit is there to the registry?<<<

I agree 100%. I never listed anything on any set registry except for a recent collection of 1oz Panda's that I will never sell but give to my daughters. Not afraid of being robbed either. Coins in Bank Vault/Big Mean Dog(really)/andWinchester12ga.Defender with 4 in chamber. What's not to love guys.

Offline buynicething

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 01:49:06 PM »
Panda halves

Thank you for putting your coins on the registery.  I will never own this set myself because of the price.  It is great to be able to look at and enjoy your set on Ngc.

Offline CoinWorld13

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 01:52:04 PM »
Besides bragging rights, big red sign "come and rob me because I have these great coins", and maybe couple of free grading, what benefit is there to the registry?

The registry is for people like me. It is an inspirational tool when you are trying to collect a set. This collecting of chinese coins and medals is not easy. It is expensive, painstaking, and has more decision making processes than working geometry to me. I know it seems like it is bragging at first. but imagine you completing such a wonderful set! The choices, the people who helped you when you thought you would never find those last couple coins. If you really read some peoples sets.. Like panda halves above. you will see how appreciative he is to those who has helped him. I do understand that you have that feeling of a red flag... but really you don't have to give your personal information. I personally believe that besides inspiration and informaton that you learn on that particular set. That you also have the factor of seeing someone complete it! It is nice. Just another way to look at it!
Regards,
CoinWorld13

Offline Russ 736

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2012, 12:09:13 PM »
Fellow forum members,
                    I have no problem with NGC changing their rules but I do think it is completely unfair to do so with no option that could protect established registry sets. I have several 1st place in catagory sets that contain one PCGS 70 coin.The loss of this one coin will be significant. NGC currently lets you cross over PCGS 69s and lower to NGC. They will not cross over 70s. I have contacted Max Speigel of NGC with the following suggestion. For a limited time, allow the submission of PCGS 70 world coins for the possibility of them being crossed over to NGC just like they do for 69s.Currently the only option is to submit your PCGS 70 coin for grading. They take it out of the capsule and grade it.You risk losing 70-80% or more in coin value if it fails to grade 70.When they cross over 69s, they look at the coin in the capsule. If they don't think it will make 69 then they send back your PCGS 69 coin intact. No harm,no foul. I may be missing something but I don't see a downside with my solution. NGC would not lose any revenue but would gain some for the cross over fees.It would be a limited time deal so their current policy would remain after the time period expired.They have the right to reject the coin for NGC 70 status thus maintaining their grading standards but at the same time not destroying the value of the members coin. I only own 6 PCGS coins but 5 of them are 70s. I don't like PCGS capsules and would never purchased one if they had not been accepted by NGC.The fact that buying NGC replacements for these coins will be very expensive or impossible leaves me and many others in the lurch. Wether you think NGC registry sets are only for braggards or the insecure really shouldn't take away from the fact that when you make major changes to a system with little notice and provide no reasonable options to deal with those changes, it is grossly unfair. If any fellow NGC registry members agree with my solution or have any of their own, please let Max hear from you.

                                     Russ736

Offline Russ 736

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 02:07:51 PM »
As a follow up to this post I need to let you know that it appears that NGC is blocking all email with the subject of rule changes for world coins. My email was returned with the reason given as prohibited subject matter. I though that Mr. Spiegel had taken this step so that underlings could review them first for content before he saw them. I then forwared the email to the address given in their announcement about the changes which was given as the contact address.It was returned for the same reason I then sent it to the person that I deal with to add new coins to existing sets. It was returned for the same reason.I then changed the subject to asking to add a coin to existing sets ( which I needed to do anyhow). It went through. I can only conclude that NGC has blocked all of their email accounts to anyone who wants to discuss the new rule changes. Does this seen reasonable to anyone on this forum? I know that if I have an issue like this to deal with as the president of my company that blocking my email to anyone wanting to discuss it would be the last thing I would do. I remember that NGC personell read this post as they have responded to critical posting about NGC. I would welcome them to do so now.

                                                 Russ 736
                                                           

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 02:19:26 PM »
It seems a little extreme to blanket block people with legitimate concerns but perhaps the volume was too overwhelming to cope with which could be a good sign for PCGS fans. I think that your solution should be adopted. NGC has no reason at this point to not implement at least a temporary policy that allows 70 coins to be evaluated for transfer. The net effect will be:
1. satisfying their customer base
2. solid revenue from re-holders or (reholder attempts)
3. increasing the amount of quality coins in NGC holders
I always wondered why these companies allow all but 70 coins to be re-holdered. It seems that the company to allow this grade to crossover first would stand the most to gain both through customer loyalty and monitary profit.

PH

Offline Obsidian

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 02:22:02 PM »
I personally think this is yet another bad move by NGC.  What I like least about grading is how PCGS and NGC are trying to be more exclusive.  There is no reason both of the companies cannot coexist.  By pitting one against the other all they do is alienate customers.  Both companies are now being strict about doing crossovers and now NGC won't allow you to have PCGS coins in the registry (like PCGS already does).  The MAIN reason I use NGC's registry is because they would allow me to put in my PCGS & NGC coins.  When I am trying to find coins to buy or sell I don't want the limiting factor to be which of the 2 main companies the coin is holdered.  

I don't care what anyone says for all practical purposes, especially with modern coins, the difference in the grading of coins by PCGS vs NGC is miniscule.  The biggest difference is perception.  Many US collectors obviously have somewhat of a bias towards PCGS. As of the moment there seems to be a bit of a bias towards NGC for Chinese modern coins.  I think this forum has a lot to do with that bias and the fact that some of the biggest dealers (Majestic Rarities) have favored NGC.  What if the overall perception of Chinese modern coins changes from PCGS to NGC.  Are we all going to be happy holding our NGC coins?  This is what bothers me.

All I know is that the thought of having to pick one company or the other exclusively and sell the coins I have from the one to buy from the other is not a thought I like.  All these tactics do is add to the cost and frustration of the hobby.  These are long term investments with high transaction costs.  To have to trade / buy / sell just to get the right holder to fit into a registry set is annoying and takes the fun out of the hobby.  The invention of the registry sets has had one of the largest POSITIVE impacts on the hobby in decades.  Is it for bragging rights? Of course!  That is a great thing, it creates COMPETITION amongst collectors.  Without this it would be like having the NFL or NBA and not keeping score.  By making the use of these registry sets more diffficult they are adding frustration to the hobby. I think I will have to send a rant to both companies.

I believe both companies are causing long term damage to the hobby in order to achieve short term gains.

Does anyone else feel the same way I do?

« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 02:29:05 PM by Obsidian »

Offline CoinWorld13

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 11:46:34 PM »
I personally think this is yet another bad move by NGC.  What I like least about grading is how PCGS and NGC are trying to be more exclusive.  There is no reason both of the companies cannot coexist.  By pitting one against the other all they do is alienate customers.  Both companies are now being strict about doing crossovers and now NGC won't allow you to have PCGS coins in the registry (like PCGS already does).  The MAIN reason I use NGC's registry is because they would allow me to put in my PCGS & NGC coins.  When I am trying to find coins to buy or sell I don't want the limiting factor to be which of the 2 main companies the coin is holdered. 

I don't care what anyone says for all practical purposes, especially with modern coins, the difference in the grading of coins by PCGS vs NGC is miniscule.  The biggest difference is perception.  Many US collectors obviously have somewhat of a bias towards PCGS. As of the moment there seems to be a bit of a bias towards NGC for Chinese modern coins.  I think this forum has a lot to do with that bias and the fact that some of the biggest dealers (Majestic Rarities) have favored NGC.  What if the overall perception of Chinese modern coins changes from PCGS to NGC.  Are we all going to be happy holding our NGC coins?  This is what bothers me.

All I know is that the thought of having to pick one company or the other exclusively and sell the coins I have from the one to buy from the other is not a thought I like.  All these tactics do is add to the cost and frustration of the hobby.  These are long term investments with high transaction costs.  To have to trade / buy / sell just to get the right holder to fit into a registry set is annoying and takes the fun out of the hobby.  The invention of the registry sets has had one of the largest POSITIVE impacts on the hobby in decades.  Is it for bragging rights? Of course!  That is a great thing, it creates COMPETITION amongst collectors.  Without this it would be like having the NFL or NBA and not keeping score.  By making the use of these registry sets more diffficult they are adding frustration to the hobby. I think I will have to send a rant to both companies.

I believe both companies are causing long term damage to the hobby in order to achieve short term gains.

Does anyone else feel the same way I do?



100 percent agreed!!
Regards,
CoinWorld13

Offline didochili

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 08:32:24 AM »
I've deleted all my registry sets as a result. I didn't see this news, but instead logged into my registry and found 20% of my points were gone. I got really angry because I built up my competitive sets over the past 3 years and I put a lot of effort into it.

I think this coin grading business needs more competition. Two major companies are just not enough. NGC does this because we can't really go anywhere else (PCGS any better, I doubt that). If there were 10 other comparable companies, I'd think NGC would think and act more carefully.

Offline GDG's

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2012, 12:38:42 PM »
I personally think this is yet another bad move by NGC.  What I like least about grading is how PCGS and NGC are trying to be more exclusive.  There is no reason both of the companies cannot coexist.  By pitting one against the other all they do is alienate customers.  Both companies are now being strict about doing crossovers and now NGC won't allow you to have PCGS coins in the registry (like PCGS already does).  The MAIN reason I use NGC's registry is because they would allow me to put in my PCGS & NGC coins.  When I am trying to find coins to buy or sell I don't want the limiting factor to be which of the 2 main companies the coin is holdered.  

I don't care what anyone says for all practical purposes, especially with modern coins, the difference in the grading of coins by PCGS vs NGC is miniscule.  The biggest difference is perception.  Many US collectors obviously have somewhat of a bias towards PCGS. As of the moment there seems to be a bit of a bias towards NGC for Chinese modern coins.  I think this forum has a lot to do with that bias and the fact that some of the biggest dealers (Majestic Rarities) have favored NGC.  What if the overall perception of Chinese modern coins changes from PCGS to NGC.  Are we all going to be happy holding our NGC coins?  This is what bothers me.

All I know is that the thought of having to pick one company or the other exclusively and sell the coins I have from the one to buy from the other is not a thought I like.  All these tactics do is add to the cost and frustration of the hobby.  These are long term investments with high transaction costs.  To have to trade / buy / sell just to get the right holder to fit into a registry set is annoying and takes the fun out of the hobby.  The invention of the registry sets has had one of the largest POSITIVE impacts on the hobby in decades.  Is it for bragging rights? Of course!  That is a great thing, it creates COMPETITION amongst collectors.  Without this it would be like having the NFL or NBA and not keeping score.  By making the use of these registry sets more diffficult they are adding frustration to the hobby. I think I will have to send a rant to both companies.

I believe both companies are causing long term damage to the hobby in order to achieve short term gains.

Does anyone else feel the same way I do?


Obsidian,

I think you have summarized it nicely. They have both shot each other in the foot and have alienated most collectors. It rankles me to no end when someone starts citing how one company is so much better. Sorry I don't buy it. There may be a perception of a big difference but in reality the difference is very little. I feel like didochili and deleting my PCGS registry set. I never cared for them anyway and that is why I never exercised  my right to do it. I did this for my daughters because it is going to be their set not mine.

Send that letter to PCGS and NGC and you've got my signature on it. I just sent 28 coins to NGC and feel like I've been raped by them. I was flabbergasted by the price. Include a few lines about the crazy rises in prices too.

Offline Pandagongzi

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2012, 02:34:02 PM »
I've deleted all my registry sets as a result. I didn't see this news, but instead logged into my registry and found 20% of my points were gone. I got really angry because I built up my competitive sets over the past 3 years and I put a lot of effort into it.

I think this coin grading business needs more competition. Two major companies are just not enough. NGC does this because we can't really go anywhere else (PCGS any better, I doubt that). If there were 10 other comparable companies, I'd think NGC would think and act more carefully.

If in the future, a Chinese grading company well established and all Chinese favored their holder, would you cross over all your PCGS/NGC holders?  Do you still prefer more competition?

Offline GDG's

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2012, 02:55:22 PM »
MORE COMPETITION IS USUALLY GOOD BUT I THINK IT WILL CONFUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE TOO ADD MORE.

PCGS making a foray into China is a good thing. I don't see this overbearing. Competition between a few is a good thing for collectors like me. I understand how important registry sets are  to most people and think both companies blew it. I think they will wise up and allow both NGC and PCGS coins in their registries.  I do hope they become competitive in their prices. I'll start sending my coins to the grading service who gives me the best deal. I'd like Obsidian to print out his letter and get  a 100 or so influential signatures on it. They will listen if we speak as a collective voice. The rise in Prices is way too much.

Offline didochili

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2012, 11:50:00 PM »
If in the future, a Chinese grading company well established and all Chinese favored their holder, would you cross over all your PCGS/NGC holders?  Do you still prefer more competition?

I didn't make any reference to a grading company being Chinese or non-Chinese. what's your point?
Also I didn't mention anything about crossing over. In this case, I wouldn't cross over my PCGS to NGC, nor will I corss over my NGC to PCGS. Why would I pay extra because NGC changed its rule? I deleted my NGC registries because I didn't want to cross over any of my coins. Your post confuses me.

Offline GDG's

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Re: NGC Registry for World Coins about to go 100% NGC only
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2012, 06:18:35 AM »
>>>I've deleted all my registry sets as a result. <<<
>>> I got really angry because I built up my competitive sets over the past 3 years and I put a lot of effort into it.<<<

Chinese grading company wasn't my post. I'm in agreement with you posts for the resins you have mentioned. I think it's bad for collectors like you and I and in fact bad for the grading companies. As I also mentioned the prices charged are getting pout of hand. I sent 28 coins to NGC and am being charged over 1K. All I can say is I better receive some 70's. I took them out of their capsules and OMP using cotton gloves and putting them in non pvc flips. I packaged them as well as one can. I examined all and I know I should receive 70's but lets see. If not I've really had it.