Author Topic: Dragon year coins.  (Read 10598 times)

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Offline Pandana

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2011, 03:50:31 PM »
I should add that there are LOTS of other generic bullion dragons out there, so this Apmex bullion is nothing new. What makes one stand out over the other is the status granted to it by its maker. Apmex is just one of countless past and present bullion makers, and there isn't much "brand loyalty" in the generic bullion market. But, for numismatics, "brand loyalty" is huge. Just look at the arguments between PCGS and NGC fans, and you'll see how devoted people can be to whatever it is they collect and hold dear.

Of course, on this forum, most of us agree that we like China's coins :) So, even if we might buy some Apmex dragon bullion, we're probably not going to do that at the expense of our Chinese coin collections.

Right on - but - big but ... I spend my money on APMEX bullion; I now can only afford 1 Chinese dragon ... IMPLICATION - reduce demand ...

Offline BChung

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2011, 08:26:58 PM »
Not to mention there is much less speculative liquidity sloshing around compared to the Tiger and Rabbit. The mintage as mentioned is not small, Personally speaking I find the design no where as attractive as the earlier issues..... but then again Chinese is crazy about dragons.

Offline exchange

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2011, 09:02:54 PM »
The 2012 dragon has been commercialized beyond all that is rational. Too many mints and private companies are getting into the game. I would not be surprised to see the US mint announce something about a coin \ medal commemorating the Dragon. More of a way to divert our creditor's attention away from ever paying them back. By the time 2012 comes along, most who wanted a dragon coin will have one. Guess what will happen next!

I expect most of the 2012 silver Dragon coins to sell just above spot by the time 2013 rolls around.

exchange
 

Offline BChung

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2011, 09:15:48 PM »
If the US mint Dragons for 2012. Beijing should if they still got a functioning brain buy them all instead of buying treasuries.

Offline exchange

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2011, 09:33:16 PM »
If the US mint Dragons for 2012. Beijing should if they still got a functioning brain buy them all instead of buying treasuries.

Nice one!

exchange

Offline badon

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2011, 10:31:42 PM »
Haha! So true!

Offline Pandana

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2011, 10:02:24 AM »
Another dragon -- Russia.  I thought Russia is a bear??? am I wrong?

In any case - dragons keep being born daily ... They will be given away for adoption later - no need to spend chunk of premium for this year ...


Offline Pandana

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2011, 10:08:44 AM »
Another one...

Kitco Dragon --- By the way, what country is Kitco?  (hehehe just being sarcastic here)


Offline exchange

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2011, 01:59:09 PM »
My two cents on silver..... maybe this should be in its own thread but seeing what is going on with the 2012 silver dragon, this seems to apply.

Makes you wonder really how scarce silver is. That is one thing I always did not understand. Many silver people insisting the supply of silver is low and that we will run out of silver, etc...

My point was always if silver is really scarce why would so many government and private mints make silver coins and medals in the hundreds of millions. The US alone this year will mint 45 Million American silver eagles, thats for just one country, one serie and in one year. Mints around the world are minting silver coins at record pace. If it was indeed rare, none of this would be happening.

A look at some of the estimated silver coins been minted this year alone.
Estimated sales for 2011 1 ounce coins:

2011 American Silver Eagles: 45 Million ounces
2011 Canadian Silver Maple Leaf: 35 Million ounces
2011 China silver pandas: 6 Million ounces.

Thats why I have been slowly selling most of my silver bullion from $45 and downwards, I said "Most" you just never know. Bought most of it between $10 and $15. Been selling and swapping for particular Chinese silver coins as shown from my "post your newest modern chinese coins" over the last few months. The way I see it, if silver goes to $100, and thats a big "IF", then I beleive my silver chinese coins will perform much better. If silver goes back to $10, I don't think my chinese coins will go down that much precentagely.


exchange
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 02:10:02 PM by exchange »

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2011, 02:39:02 PM »
     Silver supply is low.  The mints are producing and selling due to increased demand.  Even world news talks about the huge Western debt.  People are beginning to leave paper and go into precious metals.  The few & wise own metals.  The herd will follow.  Prices will rise due to huge demand and low supply.  Now is the time to accumulate.  Hang on to the silver you have and add a little more.  The only question I have:  When bullion prices increase, will Chinese coins go up in unison or will they charge out of the starting gate setting new price levels?........

Offline exchange

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2011, 02:44:47 PM »
    Silver supply is low.  The mints are producing and selling due to increased demand.  

They don't have to sell if there isn't enough silver.
I consider Chinese coins an asset. Just like paintings, furniture, antique vases, etc... They may very well trade independetly from silver prices.

exchange
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 02:56:01 PM by exchange »

Offline badon

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2011, 04:35:52 PM »
Another dragon -- Russia.  I thought Russia is a bear??? am I wrong?

In any case - dragons keep being born daily ... They will be given away for adoption later - no need to spend chunk of premium for this year ...

Russia has been symbolized as a bear by the West for the last 200 years or so:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Bear

The bear isn't an official symbol of Russia though.

About the dragon - Russia was part of Genghis Khan's empire for something like 500 years of the middle ages. Basically, after the Roman empire fell in the West, the Khanate empire rose in the East, and Russia eventually became part of that.

If you pay very close attention, sometimes you can still see surviving vestiges of the Mongolian/Chinese culture in modern Russia and nearby countries.

My two cents on silver..... maybe this should be in its own thread but seeing what is going on with the 2012 silver dragon, this seems to apply.

Makes you wonder really how scarce silver is. That is one thing I always did not understand. Many silver people insisting the supply of silver is low and that we will run out of silver, etc...

My point was always if silver is really scarce why would so many government and private mints make silver coins and medals in the hundreds of millions. The US alone this year will mint 45 Million American silver eagles, thats for just one country, one serie and in one year. Mints around the world are minting silver coins at record pace. If it was indeed rare, none of this would be happening.

A look at some of the estimated silver coins been minted this year alone.
Estimated sales for 2011 1 ounce coins:

2011 American Silver Eagles: 45 Million ounces
2011 Canadian Silver Maple Leaf: 35 Million ounces
2011 China silver pandas: 6 Million ounces.

Thats why I have been slowly selling most of my silver bullion from $45 and downwards, I said "Most" you just never know. Bought most of it between $10 and $15. Been selling and swapping for particular Chinese silver coins as shown from my "post your newest modern chinese coins" over the last few months. The way I see it, if silver goes to $100, and thats a big "IF", then I beleive my silver chinese coins will perform much better. If silver goes back to $10, I don't think my chinese coins will go down that much precentagely.


exchange

     Silver supply is low.  The mints are producing and selling due to increased demand.  Even world news talks about the huge Western debt.  People are beginning to leave paper and go into precious metals.  The few & wise own metals.  The herd will follow.  Prices will rise due to huge demand and low supply.  Now is the time to accumulate.  Hang on to the silver you have and add a little more.  The only question I have:  When bullion prices increase, will Chinese coins go up in unison or will they charge out of the starting gate setting new price levels?........

Most of the talk about silver scarcity leads back to "above ground supplies" and the fact that most silver production had shut down after silver became cheap. Silver is, however, slated to be the first natural resource that will have its known reserves exhausted from the Earth's crust, according to the USGS. Since the "above ground supplies" issue arose with increasing prices, many mines were reopened or new ones were activated. Before that, silver supplies would routinely drop to literally zero at the world's major mints and major distributors.

For a sustained, infinite price increase to occur, there does NOT need to be a large gap between supply and demand. Infinite price increases WILL ALWAYS occur as long as there is even the tiniest measurable gap between supply and demand. When people who need it and are willing to pay for it cannot buy it, the price pressure is like an arrow that goes in only one direction. Think of it as the opposite of gravity.

That's why silver prices went from around $3 to around $30:

People had trouble selling silver at $3 when supply was greater than demand, so silver routinely had to be sold at a discount, and price pressure was downward. Now, even at 10 times the price, demand is greater than supply, so silver routinely has to be bought at a premium, and price pressure is upward.

As long as price pressure is upward, it's very much like a rocket. If the thrust matches gravity, it stays in one place. But, if the thrust is even slightly bigger than gravity, the rocket will rise. The only thing that changes is how fast it moves up. More upward pressure makes it move up faster.

I suspect in another 50 years, school children will ask their history teachers: "You mean people could buy things with PAPER?". Whether the kids like that idea or not will determine whether this all happens again. If we're lucky, maybe the question they will be taught to ask will be: "You mean people were forced to sell things for PAPER?".

...And thusly, empires rise and empires fall.

Offline goldpig

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2011, 11:52:09 AM »
Today I saw a bunch of the new Dragons in person, I am still not a fan :biggrin:IMPO They are more popular with Chinese collector/investors at the moment.

Offline Pandana

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 12:31:35 AM »
More and more dragon

Dragon, dragon on the wall !!!
One two (2012) is year, many of you are born ...


Offline badon

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Re: Dragon year coins.
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 12:44:12 AM »
Hah, and we thought America's Hollywood culture had a widespread international effect...