Author Topic: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?  (Read 9075 times)

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Offline PandaBear

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Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« on: April 30, 2016, 06:30:24 AM »
Im trying to help a friend sell some Modern Chinese Coins (MCC) but have a bad experience with eBay since buyer claimed he only got an empty box and eBay sided with him!  Also, since I dont have enough post and still a newbie I cannot post on this forum classified.  Anyhow, if anyone can help that would be appreciated, danke.

Offline paul4444

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2016, 08:44:08 PM »
A great place to shop is the PandaCoinStore.com.    Great people and service.  every now and then they sell some rare coins.  I just picked up a NGC Pr68 1/20 1997 platinum panda.  Great rare coin. 

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 12:41:33 AM »
Im trying to help a friend sell some Modern Chinese Coins (MCC) but have a bad experience with eBay since buyer claimed he only got an empty box and eBay sided with him!  Also, since I dont have enough post and still a newbie I cannot post on this forum classified.  Anyhow, if anyone can help that would be appreciated, danke.

I believe that there are a number of Chinese coin dealers located in Germany. I would guess that some of them would be interested in the opportunity to buy your coins. Maybe a German member here can help point you in the right direction.

Offline baron88

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 10:20:09 PM »
It seems a buyer claiming receipt of an empty box scam is quite common nowadays.    N17

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 04:58:54 AM »
Does anyone know where I can mail the coins and receive money other than eBay or physically going into the coin store to sell?  danke in advance.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2016, 09:49:04 AM »
If I were in your position I would reconsider selling on eBay with restriction of German address only.  Ebay is the best venue to sell the type of coins you have, which are only bought by collectors and need to be exposed to many buyers.  

Suppose you have ten coins to sell that are worth $200 each, a coin shop might offer you $400 for the entire lot if you are lucky, at coin show with a dealer specializing in Chinese coins might offer you $800 for the entire lot, while on Ebay if you price the coin at $180, you will net at least $1500 after fees and shipping. Even if 1-2 buyers scam you, you will net still around $1200 which is 50% better than $800 you could get elsewhere.  What is more is once you establish credibility on eBay the risk of being scammed goes down dramatically.  

You are new at this and over the years I have seen many newbies try to sell coins on this forum, eBay and via email.  This is what I have concluded over the years to protect myself from being scammed.

Red flags, sellers to avoid:
1) seller is new and doesn't have history of selling coins.  There is 1995 5oz bimetal panda in eBay from a newbie seller in Greece, I would love to own the coin, but the auction is a scam.
2) seller is shipping international.  When a stranger ships internationally you are taking a lot of risk for loss.  The risk is even greater when the seller doesn't have a lot of experience shipping internationally.
3) seller motivation for selling are suspicious, medical bills, selling for a friend, father passed away, etc why disclose your motivation to sell is, it just makes your position weaker.  Those that act weak are looking to attract a novice or weak buyer to take advantage of.
4) seller has no or very limited knowledge about the coins he is selling, if you don't know what you are selling why do you have the item in the first place, did you steal it, etc.  
5) seller wants to be paid with western union, cash in the mail or wire transfer, does not accept PayPal. I do 99% of my business using checks and wire, but those that I am buying from or selling to trust me so neither one of us want Paypal to steal 3%-4% from our collective pockets.  If a buyer insist on using PayPal with the claim they want to protect themselves, I tell them to buy elsewhere and come back in the future when you are comfortable sending a check or wire.
6) seller has been accused of shipping empty boxes, has lawsuits against or has history of bad checks.
7) seller violates rules of forum or website auction.

It only takes 1 of the above red flags for me to avoid doing a transaction, when you first posted you nailed 6 red flags out of 7, all you were missing was western union or cash in mail as your desired payment type.

In January of 2008 a seller with no experience of selling on eBay posted some coins on eBay, he wanted to sell to pay medical bills, he preferred selling off eBay with either check or PayPal payment. I really wanted his coins, so I bought few pieces from him on eBay and asked him to send me his number in the package.  After receiving the coins I called him and to earn my trust he sent me a picture of his registry set with his phone in the pictures connected to my call. Right away I knew he was legit and he did transactions with many of the top eBay sellers of Chinese coins and had receipts to prove it, after the call I started sending him $10-30k a month by wire and check to buy out his collection of the top registry set for gold pandas.

The point is red flags can turn to green flags if both parties are honest and serious about developing a relationship.  Now that I am reminded of this story, I will seek him out when I visit long beach in June, after all he did give me the honor of the top registry set for each size for a few years, then in 2011 an aggressive band of 5 unique collectors starting buying me out of my 70s and at the end of 2011 they were the kings of the NGC registry, plus I don't like all the serial numbers of my sets disclosed publicly on the registry which is an requirement to win the award.


Offline silverpv

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 01:08:34 PM »
If I were in your position I would reconsider selling on eBay with restriction of German address only.  Ebay is the best venue to sell the type of coins you have, which are only bought by collectors and need to be exposed to many buyers. 

Suppose you have ten coins to sell that are worth $200 each, a coin shop might offer you $400 for the entire lot if you are lucky, at coin show with a dealer specializing in Chinese coins might offer you $800 for the entire lot, while on Ebay if you price the coin at $180, you will net at least $1500 after fees and shipping. Even if 1-2 buyers scam you, you will net still around $1200 which is 50% better than $800 you could get elsewhere.  What is more is once you establish credibility on eBay the risk of being scammed goes down dramatically. 

You are new at this and over the years I have seen many newbies try to sell coins on this forum, eBay and via email.  This is what I have concluded over the years to protect myself from being scammed.

Red flags, sellers to avoid:
1) seller is new and doesn't have history of selling coins.  There is 1995 5oz bimetal panda in eBay from a newbie seller in Greece, I would love to own the coin, but the auction is a scam.
2) seller is shipping international.  When a stranger ships internationally you are taking a lot of risk for loss.  The risk is even greater when the seller doesn't have a lot of experience shipping internationally.
3) seller motivation for selling are suspicious, medical bills, selling for a friend, father passed away, etc why disclose your motivation to sell is, it just makes your position weaker.  Those that act weak are looking to attract a novice or weak buyer to take advantage of.
4) seller has no or very limited knowledge about the coins he is selling, if you don't know what you are selling why do you have the item in the first place, did you steal it, etc. 
5) seller wants to be paid with western union, cash in the mail or wire transfer, does not accept PayPal. I do 99% of my business using checks and wire, but those that I am buying from or selling to trust me so neither one of us want Paypal to steal 3%-4% from our collective pockets.  If a buyer insist on using PayPal with the claim they want to protect themselves, I tell them to buy elsewhere and come back in the future when you are comfortable sending a check or wire.
6) seller has been accused of shipping empty boxes, has lawsuits against or has history of bad checks.
7) seller violates rules of forum or website auction.

It only takes 1 of the above red flags for me to avoid doing a transaction, when you first posted you nailed 6 red flags out of 7, all you were missing was western union or cash in mail as your desired payment type.

In January of 2008 a seller with no experience of selling on eBay posted some coins on eBay, he wanted to sell to pay medical bills, he preferred selling off eBay with either check or PayPal payment. I really wanted his coins, so I bought few pieces from him on eBay and asked him to send me his number in the package.  After receiving the coins I called him and to earn my trust he sent me a picture of his registry set with his phone in the pictures connected to my call. Right away I knew he was legit and he did transactions with many of the top eBay sellers of Chinese coins and had receipts to prove it, after the call I started sending him $10-30k a month by wire and check to buy out his collection of the top registry set for gold pandas.

The point is red flags can turn to green flags if both parties are honest and serious about developing a relationship.  Now that I am reminded of this story, I will seek him out when I visit long beach in June, after all he did give me the honor of the top registry set for each size for a few years, then in 2011 an aggressive band of 5 unique collectors starting buying me out of my 70s and at the end of 2011 they were the kings of the NGC registry, plus I don't like all the serial numbers of my sets disclosed publicly on the registry which is an requirement to win the award.


Very concise recommendations. For the NGC registry set, I did not think the certifcate numbers were made public, only the coins. The certs were just required to ensure you own the coin and not re-used by another member.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 01:16:17 PM »
You are right, they no longer display serial numbers.  I wonder when they made that change.   Guess it is time for me to get back to updating my registry sets.

Offline Pandora

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 04:12:52 PM »
...then in 2011 an aggressive band of 5 unique collectors starting buying me out of my 70s and at the end of 2011 they were the kings of the NGC registry...

Who were they..Some names please, Arif  :biggrin:

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2016, 07:58:41 PM »
Im trying to help a friend sell some Modern Chinese Coins (MCC) but have a bad experience with eBay since buyer claimed he only got an empty box and eBay sided with him!  Also, since I dont have enough post and still a newbie I cannot post on this forum classified.  Anyhow, if anyone can help that would be appreciated, danke.

What is your eBay ID?

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016, 11:32:24 PM »
Thanks silverpv you got me back in the registry game (+1) after a few years off.  I am going to try to get back to my former 2010 glory, it may take a few years now that my submission volume is only 10% of what it used to be and NGC is very tough on grades. 

Pandora, only PandaHavles (?), Russ736 (1/4) and Obsidian (1/10) are on this forum.  I think the guy that does 1/20 is also here, I just can't remember his screen name.

Offline silverpv

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 12:22:50 AM »
Thanks silverpv you got me back in the registry game (+1) after a few years off.  I am going to try to get back to my former 2010 glory, it may take a few years now that my submission volume is only 10% of what it used to be and NGC is very tough on grades.  

Be gentle... I'm number 3 in 1/10..

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 01:34:11 AM »
What is your eBay ID?

Poco, looks like you found the check-mate move.

He has been active since you posted your question, yet no response, another red flag, but then again I was done 6 flags earlier. 

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 07:10:41 AM »
eBay ID loktou0309

The empty box incident happened in March 2012.  I didnt want to pay for some BS so they debit and closed my account as I didnt want the hassle I just left it as I had alot on my plate at the time due to family obligations and Church.  Anyways I no longer use eBay no more. 

What is your eBay ID?


Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 09:04:14 AM »
You have a long history of transactions prior to the bad transaction, it is best to try eBay to build your credibility again. I know it is a lot of work to list in eBay, but when you don't have a history of selling coins it is hard to convince strangers to buy from you.

Over the years I have seen several of our forum members get scammed because the market was very hot and scammers knew this and convinced people to send money without any eBay profile to check or references.  When you selling items over $100 it is all about providing trust and demonstrating experience that you know what you are doing.

I am so careful now that I don't even buy coins from overseas buyers, too much can go wrong even when neither side has done anything wrong.  Even shipping to China this year has become very risky, a lot of issues with customs delay and misrouting of packages. 

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2016, 10:52:30 AM »
You have a long history of transactions prior to the bad transaction, it is best to try eBay to build your credibility again. I know it is a lot of work to list in eBay, but when you don't have a history of selling coins it is hard to convince strangers to buy from you.

Over the years I have seen several of our forum members get scammed because the market was very hot and scammers knew this and convinced people to send money without any eBay profile to check or references.  When you selling items over $100 it is all about providing trust and demonstrating experience that you know what you are doing.

I am so careful now that I don't even buy coins from overseas buyers, too much can go wrong even when neither side has done anything wrong.  Even shipping to China this year has become very risky, a lot of issues with customs delay and misrouting of packages. 


Well, I dont have a history of scamming people and I do not like eBay fees.  I have this one guy now gs617 who is even newer than me and wants to buy over 1kUSD worth of gold unicorns.  He claims jc888888888 and clarksmith has done business with him before.  So Im in the process of finding out if its true.  A little paranoia can be healthy even in a stagnant or bull market. 

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2016, 12:02:38 PM »
Two negative and one neutral feedbacks in 84 transactions at eBay is not considered to be a good reference. None of the transaction is coin related. Did not show empty box negative feedback either.

Inconsistency continues.   

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2016, 05:01:24 AM »
@poconopen,  If you think Im a scammer then pls dont buy and stay away from my post.  If you cannot bring anything but circumstantial evidence then spam somewhere else.  One should be innocent until proven guilty right?  I do hope you treat ALL new members with skepticism and disdain as you have shown me.  If not, this clearly shows you got something against me.  Furthermore, not all buyers are nice, fair, reasonable, or honest.  This is why i have two negative feedback.  Almost everyone has one or two ebay customer that are just unreasonable, shallow, high stress, and difficult.  I would explain but you will only find more circumstantial evidence and I really dont have the patience or time to explain myself as I have a life OUTSIDE this forum. 
Have a nice day and pls troll somewhere else. 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2016, 07:57:17 AM »
PandaBear    read past posts, there is a lot of fear here.     This causes opinions to go overboard.    On one hand you cannot blame them due to the rip offs many have experienced.    Post office employees steal too with out consequences.    Just prove your self as honest but that will take a lot of time.   Maybe a trusted dealer can help you and your friend for a small fee?.......

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2016, 09:51:48 AM »
Nobody is trolling you, it is in the best interest of the forum that we warn newbie buyers of the red flags that in the past led to fraudulent transactions.  There were many instances of newbies getting ripped off (money stolen) and at the time forum management didn't get as involved with vetting out new sellers, thankfully that has changed.  

This forum is not geared towards selling coins for those that don't have history of selling coins on ebay, knowledge of MCC or multiple references.  

The forum is great for learning about coins, interacting with members, getting feedback, etc. for someone new to MCC, but selling is reserved for those that have a proven track record of coin sales (here or ebay).  

While it is clear Poco, Sandac and myself will not buy from you based on what we have witnessed to date, our stance should serve as a caution to others to be very careful.  

Finally, while we can help buyers avoid common traps, what we have less visibility to is helping new sellers from getting ripped off.  There could be a new member that has never posted on this forum, that sends you a PayPal payment for your coin, after he receives it claims you sent an empty box and PayPal refunds the payment.  The scam buyers target newbie sellers, because they don't have the experience and creditability to handle the situation.  Selling on here has the same risks for a newbie seller as ebay, sure you save 6% fee, but you could just as easily lose 100%.

 

Offline Wafdawg

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2016, 01:57:58 PM »
As someone who was once a power seller on eBay and have also a great deal of trust built up on forums most especially in regards to bitcoin over at bitcointalk.org, in which the pitfalls are far greater than here or ebay, my suggestion would be to perform the transaction via escrow.  Use a trusted source you both can agree upon. A reputable forum member from here perhaps. The buyer sends the funds to escrow. Escrow confirms receipt of funds. Then seller mails out item, copies escrow on tracking info - once item is delivered to buyer, escrow releases funds to seller.  Small tip or transaction fee to performer of escrow. Done.

Offline silverpv

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2016, 02:16:06 PM »
Other than these places, selling them to an auction house or putting them on consignment to someone with an ebay store or store front might work for you. The top places to sell MCC is eBay and here. If you can't play by the rules, you might have to accept lower prices.

I'd have to agree with escrow. What you call 'circumstantial' is not exactly circumstance, you have more than 1 thing wrong with your circumstances. When two respected members say their piece, you go after them when they are doing due dilligence. They will gladly leave you alone if you verify a few things. I'm relatively new too, but you're acting like your entitled to sell high dollar coins here. You are being vetted and based on your responses, I can't say I would buy from you based on your responses. I'm also an eBay Top Rated Seller but still choose to sell some stuff here, you are dealing with specialists here who are more conservative but aggressive. All the new guys go through it, including myself.

I also think you said it yourself, a little paranoia is healthy in a bull market.

Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2016, 02:23:44 PM »
If an intermediary or "escrow agent" is needed for a transaction, it would be best for a respected EUROPEAN CCF member to perform this duty for a EUROPEAN BUYER, and for a US member to perform the duty for a US BUYER, seeing as how the coins are currently in Europe.

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2016, 02:46:16 PM »
A few truths need repeating here:

Pandabear signed on and tried selling coins after flouting the prominently displayed rules of the BST section; and he succeeded in selling at least a pair of coins before the posts were deleted. Sometime later he then went into a frenzy of one line posts to quickly make the number required for selling. Again this is against the spirit and rules for posting in this forum.

Communication with German members of the forum highlighted the fact that he was not a native German speaker. There are quite a number of inconsistencies or at least reason for pause in relation to the information he has provided in the forum. Is it then surprising that some senior forum members have voiced their concerns about the situation?

Pandabear's recent deterioration in language and comportment gives further room for concern!
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
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Offline Mirkkanen

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2016, 02:52:53 PM »
IMO, there is no need for repeating shaming info that is already prominently public (more so than the forum BST rules that this member did not abide by, which most new members also do not realize), which will only serve to lessen the likelihood of finding a willing buyer.

IF HE IS WILLING TO SHIP FIRST, THAT MEANS A BUYER CAN INSPECT THE GOODS FOR AUTHENTICITY BEFORE PAYING. WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK FOR?

Let's not "pile it on."

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2016, 03:00:18 PM »
There is nothing "shaming" about information that is based on documented happenings in the forum. Especially when the individual concerned compounds already existing problems by responding inappropriately to comments by senior members of the forum. The underlying story is not the issue; it doesn't matter what it is. The rules are there for a reason, they keep the forum safe. When we start making exceptions, that's when the rot sets in!
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Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2016, 03:11:09 PM »
I cant believe how unwelcoming you guys are for newbies, thanks I really appreciate it. 

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2016, 09:05:15 PM »
Nobody is trolling you, it is in the best interest of the forum that we warn newbie buyers of the red flags that in the past led to fraudulent transactions.  There were many instances of newbies getting ripped off (money stolen) and at the time forum management didn't get as involved with vetting out new sellers, thankfully that has changed. 

This forum is not geared towards selling coins for those that don't have history of selling coins on ebay, knowledge of MCC or multiple references. 

The forum is great for learning about coins, interacting with members, getting feedback, etc. for someone new to MCC, but selling is reserved for those that have a proven track record of coin sales (here or ebay). 

While it is clear Poco, Sandac and myself will not buy from you based on what we have witnessed to date, our stance should serve as a caution to others to be very careful. 

Finally, while we can help buyers avoid common traps, what we have less visibility to is helping new sellers from getting ripped off.  There could be a new member that has never posted on this forum, that sends you a PayPal payment for your coin, after he receives it claims you sent an empty box and PayPal refunds the payment.  The scam buyers target newbie sellers, because they don't have the experience and creditability to handle the situation.  Selling on here has the same risks for a newbie seller as ebay, sure you save 6% fee, but you could just as easily lose 100%.

 

Well said. +1
 
I also want to give credit to four members who provided the earlier warning about this new seller. +1 for all. You have made this forum to be a safer place to buy, sell and trade, regardless if pandabear is a reliable seller or not.

BST rules was made for members to have chance to evaluate the credibility of the new seller. Pandabear registered in this forum on March 10 and started to sell on March 11. The BST thread was deleted by moderator on Mach 12 and the following thread posted by our Germany members on March 12. Pandabear had violated both 30-days membership and 25 postings rules. Up to now, pandabear has not acknowledged that he had done anything wrong.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=12229.0

Nevertheless, I do want to thank pandabear for the opportunity to educate the new collectors. When in doubt, ask for reference of previous selling records and eBay ID.  The posting by keydate1/2ozpanda in this thread (reply #5) is an excellent guideline for new collectors to limit the chance of being scammed.

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2016, 11:21:03 PM »
.... it is in the best interest of the forum that we warn newbie buyers of the red flags that in the past led to fraudulent transactions.  There were many instances of newbies getting ripped off (money stolen) and at the time forum management didn't get as involved with vetting out new sellers, thankfully that has changed. 

This forum is not geared towards selling coins for those that don't have history of selling coins on ebay, knowledge of MCC or multiple references. 

 .....

 N31   N31

Offline PandaBear

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 05:06:52 PM »
As someone who was once a power seller on eBay and have also a great deal of trust built up on forums most especially in regards to bitcoin over at bitcointalk.org, in which the pitfalls are far greater than here or ebay, my suggestion would be to perform the transaction via escrow.  Use a trusted source you both can agree upon. A reputable forum member from here perhaps. The buyer sends the funds to escrow. Escrow confirms receipt of funds. Then seller mails out item, copies escrow on tracking info - once item is delivered to buyer, escrow releases funds to seller.  Small tip or transaction fee to performer of escrow. Done.

Which escrow is trusted and isn't there fees? I looked into it before for btc escrow but alot of them were shams so I stayed away. 

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Re: Where to sell other than eBay and this forum?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2018, 08:52:53 PM »
If I were in your position I would reconsider selling on eBay with restriction of German address only.  Ebay is the best venue to sell the type of coins you have, which are only bought by collectors and need to be exposed to many buyers. 

Suppose you have ten coins to sell that are worth $200 each, a coin shop might offer you $400 for the entire lot if you are lucky, at coin show with a dealer specializing in Chinese coins might offer you $800 for the entire lot, while on Ebay if you price the coin at $180, you will net at least $1500 after fees and shipping. Even if 1-2 buyers scam you, you will net still around $1200 which is 50% better than $800 you could get elsewhere.  What is more is once you establish credibility on eBay the risk of being scammed goes down dramatically. 

You are new at this and over the years I have seen many newbies try to sell coins on this forum, eBay and via email.  This is what I have concluded over the years to protect myself from being scammed.

Red flags, sellers to avoid:
1) seller is new and doesn't have history of selling coins.  There is 1995 5oz bimetal panda in eBay from a newbie seller in Greece, I would love to own the coin, but the auction is a scam.
2) seller is shipping international.  When a stranger ships internationally you are taking a lot of risk for loss.  The risk is even greater when the seller doesn't have a lot of experience shipping internationally.
3) seller motivation for selling are suspicious, medical bills, selling for a friend, father passed away, etc why disclose your motivation to sell is, it just makes your position weaker.  Those that act weak are looking to attract a novice or weak buyer to take advantage of.
4) seller has no or very limited knowledge about the coins he is selling, if you don't know what you are selling why do you have the item in the first place, did you steal it, etc. 
5) seller wants to be paid with western union, cash in the mail or wire transfer, does not accept PayPal. I do 99% of my business using checks and wire, but those that I am buying from or selling to trust me so neither one of us want Paypal to steal 3%-4% from our collective pockets.  If a buyer insist on using PayPal with the claim they want to protect themselves, I tell them to buy elsewhere and come back in the future when you are comfortable sending a check or wire.
6) seller has been accused of shipping empty boxes, has lawsuits against or has history of bad checks.
7) seller violates rules of forum or website auction.

It only takes 1 of the above red flags for me to avoid doing a transaction, when you first posted you nailed 6 red flags out of 7, all you were missing was western union or cash in mail as your desired payment type.

In January of 2008 a seller with no experience of selling on eBay posted some coins on eBay, he wanted to sell to pay medical bills, he preferred selling off eBay with either check or PayPal payment. I really wanted his coins, so I bought few pieces from him on eBay and asked him to send me his number in the package.  After receiving the coins I called him and to earn my trust he sent me a picture of his registry set with his phone in the pictures connected to my call. Right away I knew he was legit and he did transactions with many of the top eBay sellers of Chinese coins and had receipts to prove it, after the call I started sending him $10-30k a month by wire and check to buy out his collection of the top registry set for gold pandas.

The point is red flags can turn to green flags if both parties are honest and serious about developing a relationship.  Now that I am reminded of this story, I will seek him out when I visit long beach in June, after all he did give me the honor of the top registry set for each size for a few years, then in 2011 an aggressive band of 5 unique collectors starting buying me out of my 70s and at the end of 2011 they were the kings of the NGC registry, plus I don't like all the serial numbers of my sets disclosed publicly on the registry which is an requirement to win the award.


thanks for the wise advice. N31 N31 N31 N31 N31