Author Topic: Chinese 1920(9 years) fat man yuan shih kai silver coin with die clash error????  (Read 44026 times)

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Offline KONDi

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I also agree with you that they might give such of comment: Unverifible, Unauthority questionable and also Questionable cause they wanna make more money for recieving more and more chinese silver coins without capsulated, and later what? You throw them away because NGC/PCGS or ANACS are Gods in grading coins and they know the best what is genuine and what is not.
They might also capsulated to their own stuffs,friends,family and those dealers who are related to them,so that they can sell higher price and make more money place like ebay and auction house. I have nothing against NGC/PCGS or ANACS but if they are real coin experts they should know is the coin is geuine or not genuine. Not give comment between and you don't know what to do with your coin. That's why I also promised myself that I won't send anymore any of my chinese silver coin to them. To waste money and get nothing. If they will live in China, then they could learn more about varieties of YSK dollar and other coins. Like why they can't grade Sinkiang variety of YSK 1914 because they never seen such of variety or at least they didn't say a lot. Buyers also don't think when they are buying some graded coins from me. Like F condition 10 cents 1914 YSK one buyer wanted buy for 35$, and when I sent it to NGC they charged me 60$ for express grading (within 10 days) and 10$ for mailing fee. That's why I don't grade anymore my old chinese silver coins only sell them not graded. If coin is not graded it doesn't mean that coin is fake, especially when I provide good pictures of edge, reverse and obverse.
That's all what I would like to say about this all grading coins.
KONDi
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Offline chinese_item

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I also agree with you that they might give such of comment: Unverifible, Unauthority questionable and also Questionable cause they wanna make more money for recieving more and more chinese silver coins without capsulated, and later what? You throw them away because NGC/PCGS or ANACS are Gods in grading coins and they know the best what is genuine and what is not.
They might also capsulated to their own stuffs,friends,family and those dealers who are related to them,so that they can sell higher price and make more money place like ebay and auction house. I have nothing against NGC/PCGS or ANACS but if they are real coin experts they should know is the coin is geuine or not genuine. Not give comment between and you don't know what to do with your coin. That's why I also promised myself that I won't send anymore any of my chinese silver coin to them. To waste money and get nothing. If they will live in China, then they could learn more about varieties of YSK dollar and other coins. Like why they can't grade Sinkiang variety of YSK 1914 because they never seen such of variety or at least they didn't say a lot. Buyers also don't think when they are buying some graded coins from me. Like F condition 10 cents 1914 YSK one buyer wanted buy for 35$, and when I sent it to NGC they charged me 60$ for express grading (within 10 days) and 10$ for mailing fee. That's why I don't grade anymore my old chinese silver coins only sell them not graded. If coin is not graded it doesn't mean that coin is fake, especially when I provide good pictures of edge, reverse and obverse.
That's all what I would like to say about this all grading coins.


Yes,please do not send your genuine chinese silver coins to any of the coin grading company for verifying and grading anymore because their not really experts in chinese silver coins,waste of your precious time and money.The most possible reason is maybe they are really experts in chinese silver coins but they are not allowed most of the unknown collectors and dealers to sell and make money on ebay and other place like auction after capsulate it because I have quite a few of this yuan shih kai silver coins with this die clash rainbow appeared exactly the same position on the reverse side just like this coin,those coins are with ngc,pcgs and icg capsulated or holders selling on ebay,hard to believe.I believe this sellers are related to the people from this coin grading companies in united stated.Beside that,I even heard off the people from the coin grading companies capsulated and graded many fake chinese silver coins to their own people such as their family,relatives,friends and stuff then sold them on ebay and many collectors and dealers thought this fake chinese coins are genuine pieces when they received them because of capsulated and graded.Another matter is most of the western people only believe in coin grading companies capsule,holder or certificate to confirm that the coin is a genuine piece,they would treat those chinese silver coins are not genuine pieces if the coin is with no capsulated,holder or certificate and probably they would not buy it at all but to most of the chinese collectors and dealers from china,it is in a opposite way.Most of the chinese collectors and dealers from china,they are true and real experts especially from the auction house in beijing and shanghai,their not interested in this coin grading companies capsule and holder at all included the grading because they only believe in their own eyes and themself,they really know how to identify if a chinese silver coin is a genuine piece or not and they have sold many extremely rare chinese silver coins at many difference record high prices at their own auction houses back in 2007.In order to sell your genuine chinese silver coins,please take them to china and sell them to the collectors and dealers because there are many chinese coin dealers take their chinese silver coins to china and sell over there every month,believe me.

Offline KONDi

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Dear chinese_item.

I agree with you. In Hosane Auction House in Shanghai: http://www.hosane.com/
they are also selling old chinese silver coins.
I have been there on their few auctions. Some coins are graded by NGC, some buy PCGS but most of coins are not graded. And it doesn't mean that they are fake. And for the same coin in NGC or PCGS slab you have to spend 3 x more than for the same coin which is not graded. Some coin collectors don't need NGC or PCGS guarantee. They just go to trustful coin dealer or auction house in China and they can still buy genuine coins over there. I have nothing against NGC or PCGS or any other grading company, but who knows better about those old chinese silver coins than coin experts from China by themselves. I am not saying here that other experts are stupid or what. However as an example if NGC doesn't grade Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety of Yuan Shih Kai dollar 1914 because of silver content is low and because they probably don't know much about this variety, then I can bravely say that they have still a lot of to learn about old chinese silver coins. You guys can agree with me or not but this is what I think.
KONDi
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Offline chinese_item

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Dear chinese_item.

I agree with you. In Hosane Auction House in Shanghai: http://www.hosane.com/
they are also selling old chinese silver coins.
I have been there on their few auctions. Some coins are graded by NGC, some buy PCGS but most of coins are not graded. And it doesn't mean that they are fake. And for the same coin in NGC or PCGS slab you have to spend 3 x more than for the same coin which is not graded. Some coin collectors don't need NGC or PCGS guarantee. They just go to trustful coin dealer or auction house in China and they can still buy genuine coins over there. I have nothing against NGC or PCGS or any other grading company, but who knows better about those old chinese silver coins than coin experts from China by themselves. I am not saying here that other experts are stupid or what. However as an example if NGC doesn't grade Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety of Yuan Shih Kai dollar 1914 because of silver content is low and because they probably don't know much about this variety, then I can bravely say that they have still a lot of to learn about old chinese silver coins. You guys can agree with me or not but this is what I think.


I also agree with you that most of the extremely rare genuine chinese silver coins sold without this plastic capsulated,slabs or holders at the auction house in shanghai because the chinese collectors or dealers do not want their extremely rare chinese silver coins to leave china and they are afraid that they will never get back their extremely rare chinese silver coins back again if they sent it to oversea country for capsulating and grading.


There are two main reasons why did the most coin companies normally commented "Unverifiable","Questionable","Unauthocity questionable" or "Unauthocity unverifiable" for your genuine chinese silver coins when returned back from there.

First reason-They are not really experts in chinese silver coins and they are not sure and never seen about this variety like the die clash rainbow appeared on the yuan shih kai silver dollar coins just like this coin.

Second reason-They are really experts in chinese silver coins and they are sure and know anything about and have seen this variety like the die clash rainbow appeared on the yuan shih kai silver dollar coins just like this coin but they do not allowed most of the unknown collectors and dealers to help them for verifying,grading and making money after capsulate it started one or two years ago because they only issue this capsule or holder to their own family,relatives,friends and stuffs to help them to sell on the auction website like ebay,so they can make alot of money from the foreigners in this economy situation.Beside that,they keep commenting like this because they can receive more and more genuine chinese silver coins without capsules or holders then their coin companies keep making alot of money from the collectors and dealers around the world.


There are many more other reasons like what I have stated on the previous page,please refer back to the first page.I have just realised this two main reasons of what I thought,it is up to you to believe me or not.Thank you for reading.

Offline chinese_item

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If my first reason is true,that is means they are still honest just like last time they used to be because they are afraid to capsule and grade chinese silver coins if the chinese silver coins are fake.

Or else

If my second reason is true,that is means they are dishonest or no more honest started back one or two years ago because they only give this capsule and grade their own coins from their own family,relative,friends and stuffs just to help them to make money on ebay and other place like auction house.Beside that,they know that the chinese silver coins are fake then capsule and grade it just to make more money from the collectors and dealers around the world.


Hopefully my first reason is true and second reason is wrong.If not,their coin companies reputation will be destroyed and nobody will send his/her chinese silver coins for verifying and grading anymore next time.

Offline KONDi

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Totally agree with you!
KONDi
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Offline chinese_item

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Totally agree with you!


Hi,KONDI


         I fully 100% agree with you too that those chinese silver coins without coin grading company capsulated,holders or slabs do not mean that those chinese silver coins are fake coins and the collectors should not give up their chinese silver coins if without capsulated,holders or slabs when return back from the coin companies in oversea,maybe their chinese silver coins are genuine pieces but not fake.Beside that,those chinese coin experts from the auction housee in beijing and shanghai are not so interested in this capsulated,holders or slabs from the coin grading companies because their true and real experts and they only believe in their own eyes and themself for sure.Beside that,they also think that this experts from the coin grading companies are not really experts in old chinese silver coin and also think they always play cheating and dishonest in grading old chinese silver coins,that is why they have sold many extremely rare chinese silver coins without this capsulated,holders or slabs from this coin grading companies back in 2007,they sold them at their auction houses in beijing and shanghai.So,the best way to sell your genuine chinese silver coins are at the auction houses in beijing and shanghai,you willy only believe this chinese coin experts say but not those fake chinese coin experts from the coin grading companies in united states.Anyway,I feel sorry if I hurt the fake expert feeling and I would like to apologise to the fake expert over here.

Offline chinese_item

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HI KONDI


        Since you said and confirmed this coin is a genuine piece because of this errors appeared on this coin.Surprisingly,the weight of this coin is much more heavy than a normal piece which is 27.55 grams instead of 26.6 to 26.9 grams normally on all of yuan shih kai silver dollar coins.I believe this is the most heavy old chinese silver dollar coin ever made and discovered so far and none of yuan shih kai silver dollar coins included the dragon dollar silver coins are at this weight or more heavy than this weight,you will never see an old chinese silver dollar coin at this weight too or more than this weight.


        I need help and explain especially from KONDI and also dragondollar to tell me what happend to this coin.Is it possible this coin contents more silver material in it?Please check the weight of your yuan shih kai silver dollar coin right now if you have one and let me know what you think,hope to hear from both of you soon and both of your help are much apprieiciated.Please refer to the scan below.Thank you and have a nice day.



Offline KONDi

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Dear chinese_item :001_rolleyes:

Your Yuan Shih Kai 1920 silver dollar is a genuine coin! :thumbup: I have no doubt about it.
This is overweight Hainan variety. I have similar such of coins for sell. Please take a look on those photos below.
Of course condition of mine is not the same as your coin.

My both Hainan variety coins are overweight: 27,57 to 27,6g. NGC, PCGS, IGC neither ANACS can't deal with grading Hainan vatiety!!! Their coin experts have never seen Hainan variety believe me. Maybe some coin collectors sent them a few of them but I doubt that they graded even 1, only they sent them back to those coin collectors with comment: "Unverifiable".

I am not sure about silver content in Hainan variety but as far as I know Sinkiang (Xinjiang) and Kansu (Gansu) varieties of Yuan Shih Kai dollar dated 1914 have low silver content.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Here is an example of my Yuan Shih Kai Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety.
Sinkiang variety has 39,5mm in diameter and 27,1g in weight. It is also overweight coin which after returned to me from NGC, they gave me a comment: "Unverifiable". So what I did, I took the coin to 10 coin experts here in China cause I thought that maybe I am wrong. If those BIG experts from NGC say "NOT SURE" for my coin, so I thought maybe I am wrong. But those 10 coin experts from auction houses and coin dealers. They all confirmed that this is Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety! So after all BIG experts from NGC was wrong, not me! That's why I started doubt in those American grading coin companies.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Some people don't believe that Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety can be much more expensive than regular issued Yuan Shih Kai dollar. Here is the proof that they are more expensive!
Take a look on this link: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=7610465952
This coin on Chinese taobao.com (which is similar to eBay) used to cost 1800 RMB
And take a look how much does it cost right now?
3570 RMB + 6 RMB for transport. Can you see this?
The price of this coin nearly increased twice!
Why is that? Cause Sinkiang vatiety is much more rare than general issued YSK dollars. That's why the prices of old chinese silver coins in China are much higher than outside of China.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Dear chinese_item :001_rolleyes:

Here is another Hainan variety of YSK dollar 1914.

This coin is overweight too: 27,54g. But it is genuine coin!

So do not get rid of your Hainan variety even NGC couldn't confirm that it is genuine.

I do not discriminate here NGC or any other grading comapny and say to all of you to do not grade your coins at all and don't send them your coins. Those coin experts from NGC/PCGS or ANACS have a lot of experience with many coins from the world but they still have to improve their knowledge about old chinese silver coins especially about varieties of Yuan Shih Kai dollars.

I can bravely say that more about old chinese silver coins know Chinese coin experts than NGC or other grading coin company from US.

Of course there are a lot of fakes in China as well. However let's respect also those true experts from China who really know what's going on.

We all knows that old chinese coins in NGC are worth more than not graded coin.

Nowadays people are fancy with NGC/PCGS or other grading companies. But how do we know that their judgement "Authenticity Unverifiable" is right judgement or maybe simple they do not have that much knowlege to make a right judgement.

How knows, maybe it is because old chinese silver coins are the most wanted silver coins in the world and everyone wanna have one piece. So NGC or others think that they have power and authority to judge are those coins are genuine or not. They know very good that prices are rising for those coins and they also know that if they will grade too many of those coins, the prices might drop down, so they take an action to do not grade too many to keep prices on high level. That's my personal opionion.

You can agree with me or disagree with me, but old chinese silver coin which in not graded by NGC or others, it doesn't mean that coin is fake.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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Here is the the heaviest old chinese silver Yuan Shih Kai dollar 1914 which I have.
This is private issued YSK dollar 1914. It is northwest style. It is hard to say by which warlord this coin was issued.
It has 28,5 grams (it is overweight coin). The silver content is only 8%! But this coin is genuine issued probably after Yuan Shih Kai (Hung-hsien) died in 1916.

Dear chinese_item,
Here is my answer that your Hainan variety is genuine coin but it is possible your coin contents less silver material in it.
For sure I can tell you that Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety has low silver content, that's why it is weight more. Below you can see Shandong varieties (all those coins) are Shandong varieties. Such of coin has 27,5g and 39,2mm in diameter and it is genuine. But it content less silver.
KONDi
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Offline KONDi

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I forgot to add photos of my northwest style variety of YSK dollar 1914 which is overweight: 28,5g
KONDi
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Offline chinese_item

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HI,KONDI


        First of all,I would like to thank you so much for your effort of your explaination in detail and scans on above.Before that,I always think and believe that all of those chinese yuan shih kai silver dollar coins are having the same weight within 26.6 grams to 26.9 grams just like most of the people thought but I was wrong until I found out and realised that every yuan shih kai silver dollar coin has difference weight from difference province in china of what you said over here.


Now I can confirm that my yuan shih kai coin(Year 9) is a hainan yuan shih kai silver dollar coin because it was passed down by my grandmother to my father in hainan long time ago and I can see that your hainan yuan shih kai coin(Year 9) also has the die clash rainbow appeared on the same position below the yuan exactly same like mine except for the condition.This is to confirm your hainan and my hainan yuan shih kai silver dollar coins are genuine pieces and the die clash rainbow are constant variety too.Anyway,I would like to apologize to you that I have made a mistake and thought wrongly about the weight of this coin over here and hope to learn more about this yuan shih kai silver dollar coin from you even more.Your informations and scans are very helpful to me and I apprieiciate you very much.