Author Topic: Chinese 1920(9 years) fat man yuan shih kai silver coin with die clash error????  (Read 40085 times)

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Offline Shamota

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Republic, Yuan Shih-Kai Silver Dollar, 1914.45 mm. 30,4 g. The gurte eat inscription L.Georgi. How often it occurs ? Is this a rare coin. ?

http://s017.radikal.ru/i415/1202/31/defe6bbb509e.jpg


http://s017.radikal.ru/i409/1202/74/5b9eadbb7034.jpg


Offline Shamota

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Republic, Yuan Shih-Kai Silver Dollar, 1914.45 mm/30,4 g.The gurte eat inscription L.Georgi. How often it occurs ? Is this a rare coin. ? Maybe it's a fake?


Republic, Yuan Shih-Kai Silver Dollar, 1914.The gurte eat inscription L.Georgi. How often it occurs ? Is this a rare coin. ?

http://s017.radikal.ru/i415/1202/31/defe6bbb509e.jpg


http://s017.radikal.ru/i409/1202/74/5b9eadbb7034.jpg

Offline epstein

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HI Kondi,

just help to show the pictures  :001_rolleyes:




Offline Shamota

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Republic, Yuan Shih-Kai Silver Dollar, 1914. 44 mm.30,4 g.The gurte eat inscription L.Georgi. How often it occurs ? Is this a rare coin. ?






http://s017.radikal.ru/i409/1202/74/5b9eadbb7034.jpg

Offline KONDi

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Dear epstein,
Thank you for your help of posting pictures of this coin.

Dear Shamota,
I am sorry to tell you but you coin is either white copper silver-plated fake and doesn't attach to magnet or it is silver-plated metal which sticks strongly to magnet.
From the look of this coin I would say it is 5 dollars 1914 Yuan Shih Kai with L.Giorgi.
The point is that 5 dollars "wu yuan" dated 1914 has never existed. They never issued such of coin with bust of Yuan Shih Kai. Another thing, the design of this coin is very cruel...I need one took to tell it is fake. Finally inscription L.Giorgi behind the right shoulder appears ONLY on pattern coins. There are very few pattern coins issued with L.Giorgi. Luigi Giorgi was Italian engraver, who design Yuan Shih Kai dollar. Do you know how rare YSK dollar 1914 with L.Giorgi is? It is extremely rare coin. Also L.Giorgi inscription they put on edge. There are too many evidences on this coin which speaks that it is fake. Once again sorry that I have to tell you this.
Be careful when you buy old chinese silver coins. Buy from trustful coin dealers. I sell old chinese silver coins on Buy, Sell and Trade section, every month I post "Old chinese silver coins for sale...". You can take a look and if you are interested you can contact with me you can have a good deal.

Best wishes from Shanghai,

KONDi
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
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Offline Shamota

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Dear KONDi.
Thank you very much for your reply! I also suspect that the coin is a fake.
Yours faithfully.

Dear EPSTEIN.
Thank you for your help of posting pictures of this coin.

Yours faithfully.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:14:22 AM by Shamota »

Offline Shamota

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KONDi.
 Yuan Shih Kai Flying Dragon Silver Dollar. 17,6 g./ 37 mm.   
http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i510/1202/80/23eafec37810.jpg.html
You can recognize such a coin counterfeiting? this coin it is fake.
http://i023.radikal.ru/1202/0f/c1cffd56c341.jpg

Offline Shamota

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KONDi.
 Yuan Shih Kai Flying Dragon Silver Dollar. 17,6 g./ 37 mm.   

You can recognize such a coin counterfeiting? this coin it is fake.
http://i023.radikal.ru/1202/0f/c1cffd56c341.jpg


« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 08:33:38 AM by Shamota »

Offline Shamota

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Offline Shamota

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Dear KONDi.
Is there any reference to inscription L.Giorgi  on edge.   
Inscription:



Offline Shamota

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Dear KONDi.Is there any reference to inscription L.Giorgi  on edge.   
Inscription: L.Giorgi L.Giorgi L.Giorgi - LNC  +  next 16 Chinese characters .
Who could make this difficult word.? Was there any point in counterfeiting label? Is there another explanation?






Offline epstein

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Hi Shamota,

Maybe you can use flickr or photobucket to upload pictures in this forum;
For reference, you may search using search engine

http://home.netvigator.com/~ykleungn/yuansk2.htm

http://www.mcsearch.info/search.html?search=&view_mode=0&c=37&a=820&l=&page=3

Offline epstein

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Add on about Silver Coin YSK with L. Giorgi words

Quote
Three distinct types (and numerous varieties) of Yuan Shih Kai dollars were produced beginning in 1914, all designed by Giorgi. An undated type shows Yuan in a facing portrait, wearing a military uniform and feathered hat (Kann 642; KM Y322 type; also known in gold). A second type, dated 1914, shows a three quarters (partly turned) bust of Yuan, in uniform but without a hat (Kann 643; KM Pn32). The last and most diverse type, also dated 1914 and which became a standard circulating coin, had a profile bust of Yuan in uniform without a hat (Kann 645; Y329; also known in gold). The second portrait was engraved first and was intended to be the standard type for circulation. A 1917 article by Dr. Giuseppi Ros, "Coins of the Republic of China," explains why the portrait was changed: ¡°This dollar [Kann 643] was never put in circulation. The engraver, Mr. L. Giorgi, whose name appears near the right shoulder of Yuan Shih Kai's bust, had been granted a special audience by the late President in order to submit to him the first specimen struck of his new dollar. But on seeing the President, whose portrait the engraver had reproduced only from a photograph, the artist was inspired to produce something better. Permission was then asked and granted to begin a new die, when the following coin [Kann 645 with profile portrait] was produced."

Giorgi, the most famous engraver of Chinese coins, was an excellent artist and produced some beautiful coins during late Ch'ing and early Republican times. Almost everything we know about Giorgi comes from the Ros article published in the Royal Asiatic Society (Shanghai branch) Journal for 1917, and Eduard Kann's "Illustrated Catalogue of Chinese Coins", published in Hong Kong in 1954. Giorgi was born around 1880. Before coming to Tientsin, he had worked for the medallic firm, Stabilimento Stefano, in Milan, Italy. He was the Chief Engraver at the Tientsin Central Mint from 1910 to 1917, after which he returned to Italy. He was still living in retirement in Italy in 1953, according to Kann, who was probably corresponding with him. Our other source of information on Giorgi's career, are the Chinese coins which bear his signature, all of them rare patterns.

Last record transaction Nov 30, 2011 (Coin Graded by NGC MS 63) @Champion Hong Kong Auction $ 130,000

Offline KONDi

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Dear Shamota,

If your parameters are correct then I must say it is fake without seeing it. 17,6g and 37mm are wrong parameters! Please post photos of obverse and reverse so I can tell you more. I can open your links. Please copy the pictures from those links and post here on the forum and also send on my email: cfrost1984@gmail.com so I can tell you more.

KONDi.
 Yuan Shih Kai Flying Dragon Silver Dollar. 17,6 g./ 37 mm.   
http://radikal.ru/F/s018.radikal.ru/i510/1202/80/23eafec37810.jpg.html
You can recognize such a coin counterfeiting? this coin it is fake.
http://i023.radikal.ru/1202/0f/c1cffd56c341.jpg

KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)

Offline KONDi

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Dear epstein,

That's a good advice! Thanks for help.

Hi Shamota,

Maybe you can use flickr or photobucket to upload pictures in this forum;
For reference, you may search using search engine

http://home.netvigator.com/~ykleungn/yuansk2.htm

http://www.mcsearch.info/search.html?search=&view_mode=0&c=37&a=820&l=&page=3
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)