Author Topic: Chinese 1920(9 years) fat man yuan shih kai silver coin with die clash error????  (Read 39501 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
Chinese 1920(9 years)fat man yuan shih kai silver dollar coin with die clash error?A new discovery?

Hi everyone,nice to see you all again.I need help from the coin experts to identify this coin with this unique error.This is a Chinese 1920(9 years) yuan shih kai silver dollar coin from my collection.Obviously,there are a few things "Extra" appeared on obverse and reverse sides surface(both sides),



On obverse side,

There are two unusual dots and a hair line appeared on the left and right of the uniform.



On reverse side,

There is a rainbow with a few lines just right below the chinese word "yuan" and one of the leaf on the right side has short and long sharp torns on it but the leaf on the left side with no torns at all clearly showing on the last scan.Seems the "yuan" is right on the rainbow and the only leaf on the right side that grow sharp torns on it.Everytime I try to use my fingernail to dig the torns part softly and my fingernail would struck there from getting through,this is to confirm the torn die is there.



In my personal opinion,I would consider it as "Unique error silver coin" becouse I have never seen before something like this(especially the rainbow and torn parts)appeared on this Chinese yuan shih kai silver dollar coin and probably Im the first person who discovered this error parts.I also believe Chinese silver coin with error is certainly very very rare.



Unfortunely,I really have no idea what happend to this errors and die during process and unable to confirm if it is a new discovery on chinese silver coin or not.So I need help and opinion from the error coin expert to identifying the errors and die of it,help is always apprieciated from me.Remember to click,enlarge and view every superlarge scans below and see error parts carefully.Anyway,I hope to hear from you very soon.Thank you and have a nice day.



NOTE:THIS COIN IS GUARANTEE 100% ORIGINAL AND GENUINE CHINESE SILVER COIN BUT NOT COUNTERFEIT AND REPRODUCTION TYPE BECOUSE IT WAS PASSED DOWN FROM MY GRANDMA TO MY FATHER FROM CHINA ON LAST TIME.









Offline hc286

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
Those are nice die clash errors. The older coins have so many error and variaties. These coins were produced in vast quantities that it is bound to happen especially with poor quality control in some cases. I don't think there is list of all errors available.

In the US, there isn't a big demand for die clashes, unless it is a major one. Value is determined what ever the buyer is willing to pay for it.

I have a double die 1939 2cent piece and many coins with die cracks. I also have a 1914 dollar with an interesting edge reeding; it looks like it overlapped a little bit (not like the recent fake overlap reeds). This too was given by my grandmother. It has two chop marks on the obverse (I have not see one fake with chop marks so far).

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
Those are nice die clash errors. The older coins have so many error and variaties. These coins were produced in vast quantities that it is bound to happen especially with poor quality control in some cases. I don't think there is list of all errors available.

In the US, there isn't a big demand for die clashes, unless it is a major one. Value is determined what ever the buyer is willing to pay for it.

I have a double die 1939 2cent piece and many coins with die cracks. I also have a 1914 dollar with an interesting edge reeding; it looks like it overlapped a little bit (not like the recent fake overlap reeds). This too was given by my grandmother. It has two chop marks on the obverse (I have not see one fake with chop marks so far).

Thank you for your comment,I apprieiciate for your comment very much.Is that a 1914 yuan shih kai silver dollar coin exactly look like this except the year is difference of what you mean on this comment or other type of coin?I hope to hear from you as soon as possible.See you soon. ;) ;) ;)

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
Hi,nice to see some of you once again.Fortunely,I have just discovered another "unique error" on the security edge of this coin beside die clash error.I really have no idea what kind of error is this and it is not a common error on any coin.I have never ever seen something like this before and probably this is the first time I have seen something like this,so I would consider and call it as "unique error".Obviously,I can see there are two thicker lines or teeth than the rest on the security edge showing on the superlarge scan below,the left tooth is eventually much more thicker than the right tooth.Normally,the teeth on the security edge are all the same size(on each tooth).Probably this is a double error coin(die clash and security edge errors).

May I know what kind of error is this on the security edge?Is this considered as "unique error" type?Is this a common or rare error?What happened to this silver dollar coin during the processing?I hope someone can tell me something about this error and also answer all my questions,I need help from you and your help is apprieiciated from me.Thank you very much.I will see you soon. ;) ;) ;)




« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 11:27:34 AM by chinese_item »

Offline hc286

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
I am not sure about the error on the reeding. That is the same type I have on my 1914 yuan that I mentioned. I have a fake Momento yuan with an obvious fake reeding. I don't have any other fakes to compare to.

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
I am not sure about the error on the reeding. That is the same type I have on my 1914 yuan that I mentioned. I have a fake Momento yuan with an obvious fake reeding. I don't have any other fakes to compare to.

Thank you for replying me.By the way,Did you notice beside this two errors on this coin,the chinese word "yuan" and the bottom center part are with double die errors showing on reverse side of this coin.I have never seen before any of the chinese silver coin with this double die error especially the double die "yuan" correct me If Im wrong of this.Did your silver yuan with this errors exactly same like this?Anyway,the double die error parts are pointed out by red arrow showing on the superlarge scans below.Check it out and let me know what you think.



Offline hc286

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
Yeah I just noticed it. That is a nice double die there.

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
Yeah I just noticed it. That is a nice double die there.

Good :thumbup:,Im so glad that you noticed it.Unfortunely,there were some people from ebay said that this silver coin is a counterfeit that pissed me off.Thanks to those CHINESE PEOPLE from china that keep making counterfeit coins all the time but I believe this piece is 100% a genuine item and I wanted to get a certificate for it,so that this people from ebay would shut their mouth up.By the way,do you know where can I send this item for a certificate something like PCGS but Im not living in USA or CHINA.Any suggestion? :confused1: :confused1: :confused1:
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 09:35:22 AM by chinese_item »

Offline hc286

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Karma: 0
I have not done the PCGS or any other third party grading process before. Maybe try contacting them through their websites. Go with the reputable companies.

Offline KONDi

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
Hi chinese_item,

As a small chinese coins dealer. I will tell you honestly this coin is 100% genuine. I found some similar coin in one of my friendly coin dealer shop. Take a look: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=4321740621
It is not exactly the same look coin as yours but you can notice and it is nearly similar. I hope it will help you somehow. Please contact with "expat" on zeno.ru and he will help you. Just post the picture of your coin. But remember use white background cause those guys are very sensitive about this thing. The best way however is to grade those 2 coins in NGC or ANACS. PCGS is also good company, but right now they have a lot of problem with fake holders. So better send to NGC or ANACS. Once you will send your coins there your all questions will be answered. But I am telling you, that your coins are very genuine and because of those errors they are even more valuable, cause it is hard or even impossible to find the same looking coin. Don't worry my friend! :001_smile: :thumbup:
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)

Offline KONDi

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
Dear hc286,

You mentioned that you have 1914 dollar with an interesting edge reeding. Is that YSK dollar 1914 has "O" in the ribbon bowl? I would like to see if it is possible here the edge of this coin. Could you post it here. Thanks :001_smile:
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
I have not done the PCGS or any other third party grading process before. Maybe try contacting them through their websites. Go with the reputable companies.


I have sent this coin to NGC coin company to obtain a plastic capsulated last year.Unfortunely,NGC commented "Unverifible" when returned back from there and I need to pay for the fees and waited for two months to receive back from there,waste of my time and money.If the experts from NGC commented "Unverifible",they should not have charged me a single cent except for the postage return charge only.Beside that,I have also sent other chinese silver coins together with this coin to there at the same time,other chinese silver coins received comments like "Unauthority questionable" and also "Questionable".NGC has more than 10 coin experts working there but non of them can certify this coin.I am thinking and wondering are they really experts in chinese silver coins or not.


There are a few reasons below why did ngc comments like this during the examination:


1.They are not really expert and know how to identify chinese silver coins

2.They do not want most of the chinese coin collectors and dealers to make money especially from the asian region

3.They want you to throw away your genuine chinese silver coin after give comment like this,so that other genuine chinese silver coins are getting less and less and become more valueble next time

4.They want those previous chinese silver coins with ngc capsulated to be sold first before issuing new ngc capsulated to the latest chinese silver coins they receive

5.They only provide this ngc capsulated to their own stuffs,friends,family and those dealers who are related to them,so that they can sell higher price and make more money place like ebay and auction house

6.They keep giving this kind of comments just because they can keep making more money by receive more and more chinese silver coins without capsulated

This are the 6 reasons of what I thought of them and maybe it is also applied to other coin companies like pcgs,icg,anac and ana.

I believe most of the chinese coin collectors received comments like this when they received back their chinese silver coins from many difference coin companies in united states.Especially applied for those chinese coin collectors from asian regions.Dont get me wrong,you might send your chinese silver coin to any of this coin company for grading and capsulated,hopefully you might be the lucky one to get the capsulated with grading,just try your own luck and it is very hard to say.I would like to apologize to some chinese coin collectors and the experts from any of this coin company if you are disagree with me but this reasons are just my thought.


Anyway,I have promised myself that I will never send any of my chinese silver coin to any of this coin company for capsulating and grading again.I have also swear to god.

Offline chinese_item

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Karma: -60
Hi chinese_item,

As a small chinese coins dealer. I will tell you honestly this coin is 100% genuine. I found some similar coin in one of my friendly coin dealer shop. Take a look: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=4321740621
It is not exactly the same look coin as yours but you can notice and it is nearly similar. I hope it will help you somehow. Please contact with "expat" on zeno.ru and he will help you. Just post the picture of your coin. But remember use white background cause those guys are very sensitive about this thing. The best way however is to grade those 2 coins in NGC or ANACS. PCGS is also good company, but right now they have a lot of problem with fake holders. So better send to NGC or ANACS. Once you will send your coins there your all questions will be answered. But I am telling you, that your coins are very genuine and because of those errors they are even more valuable, cause it is hard or even impossible to find the same looking coin. Don't worry my friend! :001_smile: :thumbup:


HI,KONDI


I believe you are a chinese coin expert and know how to identify if a chinese silver coin is a genuine or not beside a dealer.I suggest that you should work for the ngc company because you are a true and real chinese coin expert than those experts from ngc company and they should have fired immediately.I should have sent this coin to you first then you take it to ngc and tell the experts that this coin is a genuine piece and capsulate it,just kidding.Anyway,thank you for your comment and I apprieiciate it very much.

Offline KONDi

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
You welcome!
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)

Offline KONDi

  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
  • Karma: 59
  • Gender: Male
Dear chinese_item,

I must say that I totally agree with you about NGC. NGC is American grading company. They have a lot of experts there but I also think that those people are not really experts and don't know how to identify chinese silver coins. I can't say that they don't know how to identify all chinese silver coins but here are not experts in varieties of old Chinese silver coins.
For example I used to send my 1 dollar Yuan Shih Kai 1914 Sinkiang (or Xinjiang) variety to NGC, and what happened 2 months later when I got the coin back. It wasn't graded, they wrote "Authenticity Unverifiable". I talked with my colleagues which are all small coin dealers or coin agents they all took a look on the coin once again and said this is not fake coin or authenticity unverifiable, only those guys from NGC just don't have enough knowledge to verify the coin. So I wasted 70$ and didn't get anything from them. I also think that they did this because nowadays old chinese silver coins are sooo popular among coin collectors in the whole world that everyone wanna have high graded one and in NGC or PCGS. If the coin is genuine but not graded people become picky and don't wanna buy the coin cause they thought that if it is not graded by NGC/PCGS or ANACS then it must be fake. They believe in NGC/PCGS and ANACS like in God. So those coin experts really wanna rise the value of those graded chinese silver coins by them by saying "Authenticity Unverifiable" or some other funny comments. In China the value of Sinkiang (Xinjiang) variety of YSK dollar 1914 is worth much more than general issued YSK 1914. So what happened with my YSK 1914 Sinkiang variety. I sent it to PCGS and they graded it finally. I cost me another waste of money. The same is with Shandong variety of YSK 1914 dollar - IT CAN'T BE GRADE BY NGC! If you will send your coin there it will come back "Authenticity Unverifiable"
http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=2289.0
KONDi
cfrost1984@gmail.com
Chopmark Collectors Club member 368 (CCC)
Shanghai Token Society member 3 (STS)