Author Topic: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set  (Read 4893 times)

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Offline cabaretvolt

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Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« on: November 30, 2012, 09:45:32 PM »
not bidding on this item but am curious about because there was a really interesting discussion
here that i was following regarding ngc/ncs fee increases etc and the potential bullish upshot effect
it might/will have on o.m.packaging

question:  even if you had an expert eye and could discern a lofty grade on these coins, the packaging
is so stellar what should be done?



"Okay, You people sit tight, hold the fort and keep the home fires burning. And if we're not back by dawn... call the president" - Burton

Offline heyimderrick

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 02:11:07 PM »
I personally think it is a shame for the really interesting packaging/displays to be discarded after grading. Cardboard boxes are one thing, but these ornate cases and such are really works of art themselves and represent a history/culture that may some day be lost. If I owned a set like that, I would probably keep it as is because of the great eye-appeal. 

Offline dynamike51

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 02:20:21 PM »
I personally think it is a shame for the really interesting packaging/displays to be discarded after grading. Cardboard boxes are one thing, but these ornate cases and such are really works of art themselves and represent a history/culture that may some day be lost. If I owned a set like that, I would probably keep it as is because of the great eye-appeal. 

My question: Why submit with the case/packaging if they are of some value?

Offline heyimderrick

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 02:25:05 PM »
My question: Why submit with the case/packaging if they are of some value?

I didn't say that as clearly as I meant. I didn't mean send the packaging to NGC/PCGS and let them toss it after they grade the coins; I meant some people submit the coins and then just get rid of the packaging to keep the slabs on their own. Either way, I think that's a shame. I'm saying I would prefer a set like the one above to remain in its OMP/display, rather than having the graded coins and no display, or graded coins now with an empty display. But that's just me. If I were to grade something like the set above, I would definitely still save the display.

Offline fwang2450

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 03:08:48 PM »
I personally think it is a shame for the really interesting packaging/displays to be discarded after grading. Cardboard boxes are one thing, but these ornate cases and such are really works of art themselves and represent a history/culture that may some day be lost. If I owned a set like that, I would probably keep it as is because of the great eye-appeal. 
I own a set like this and will not have the coins graded. They belong to the box.

Offline dobedo

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 10:58:19 PM »
I own a set like this and will not have the coins graded. They belong to the box.
If I had a set like this, I'd not have it any other way. They belong to each other.

Offline poconopenn

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 12:29:48 AM »
The value of Morgan dollar inside a GSA holder is higher than graded coin. IMO, the value of MCC in original package, such as this one, will be higher than graded coin in the future. Recent auctions in China for coin sets with COA # such as 00001, 00888, etc. have a final value more than double the set without such special number. For collector, the original package is just as collectible as coin.

Offline Batman

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 12:51:23 AM »
I have a 1996 set in omp with original box and the working music box...I have no intentions of getting it graded.

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 01:16:22 AM »
Since your coins are not double sealed and assuming they all look very nice (69 quality), I would recommend you get the coins graded if you have any desire to sell this set in the next couple of years.  Unsealed coins sold over internet sell for a fraction of their true value if they are PF69 quality.  Also as we have seen the cost of conservation and grading keeps going up, so the sooner you can conserve and grade, the better off you will be. 

To give you an idea how much I sell these sets for in different grades:
$450 Unsealed set with box, toy and COA
$600 Double sealed coin set with box, toy and COA
$550 PF68 set with box, toy and COA
$900 PF69 set with box, toy and COA
The cost of grading without conservation is about $100, conservation with grading is about $150.  So if you can get a few PF69, you create value by grading.  If you had a double sealed set the decision to grade is a little tougher.   

Arif

Offline Panda Halves

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 02:07:55 AM »
I agree with Arif on this one.
So long as you retain the original capsules which you can request when sending to NCS then you have nothing to lose because they aren't double sealed.
If you don't get the grades you desire or want to revert to the original packaging you can always crack them out and put them back. Grading them can create value relative to risk and enhances future options in this case.

Offline Hippanda

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 02:47:49 AM »
I own a set like this and will not have the coins graded. They belong to the box.
If I had a set like this, I'd not have it any other way. They belong to each other.
I have a 1996 set in omp with original box and the working music box...I have no intentions of getting it graded.

I agree with these comments... For special coin sets with special OMP,  it's the difference between Collectors and Sellers.  I believe Arif states the Current status, for "Sellers". And that may change soon, as Poconopenn so clearly predicts, and Exchange has stated before.  Soon there may plenty of slabbed lifeless coins, and no beautiful OMP.
Which will be more dear, then?

Yes, if one plans on sellling immediately maybe they should have pedigree.  But if one is a collector and wants to enjoy looking at their special set, who can say they prefer looking at sterile plastic slabs, versus looking at beautiful specially designed themed presentation boxes, which are soulfully artful in their own right?

To me its like the difference of having a beautiful bird of paradise alive with unproven pedigree, versus having a dead stuffed bird with a tag of quality stapled on it.

Separating them and keeping the coins slabbed and keeping the OMP empty, makes as much sense to me as having the bird dead and stuffed, and yet keeping the aviary too, but empty.



« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 02:59:01 AM by Hipanda »
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Offline Obsidian

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2012, 03:35:55 AM »
This topic seems to pop up every so often and it is honestly a tough one for me.  I actually own one of these sets in question and it is still in OMP.  However, I primarily own gold pandas and those are all graded.  As a general rule I do prefer graded coins for a number of reasons.  Two of the main reasons being protection and liquidity.  

Protection:  For a collector or investor, protection of the coin always matters.  I like being able to hand the coin to a person I am showing it to.  Having the coin graded allows me to do this.  Everytime I open an OMP and try to show both sides of the coin I worry that either I will drop the coin or the person I am showing it to will drop the coin.  Or that just popping it out of the box and flipping the coin around will damage it.  The box the coin came in might be cool but I am showing the coin, not the box.  If I wanted to collect beautiful boxes, I'd collect them and not coins.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the boxes and do believe they are great to have with the coin.  However, the most important thing to me is protection of the coin.

As a side note to protection.  These boxes take up a lot of space.  I protect my coins by keeping them in a safety deposit box most of the time.  I am able to store the "slabbed" coins in my safety deposit box and keep the boxes at home in a closet.  I'd rather lose my boxes to fire and theft than my boxes AND coins.

Liquidity:  You might think this only matter to investors / dealers.  This certainly isn't the case.  This matters to everyone, including collectors, we just have a different ownership time horizon.  Many collectors over a lifetime sell large portions of their collections.  Often times when "upgrading" from one coin to another.  Many times because life happens and they are forced to sell.  And lastly, even if a collector happens to keep the collection throughout their life, at some point it is likely their loved ones will be interested in selling.  A graded coin is more liquid because the authenticity / quality of the coin is more certain.  Anytime uncertainty is removed from any market you have increased liquidity.  Also, in most markets where liquidity increases, you also have increased value.  And in todays day and age where transactions take place all around the world and often times via the internet, grading is an answer to this.  Most of the large auction houses now have live online bidding, eBay, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I have a few coins in OMP and I am often torn when it comes to grading these coins with the nice boxes.  In the end, I believe I will eventually grade them because it simply makes sense to me.  And as for the logic that in time most coins will be graded and OMP will become the rare coins.  That might be the case, however, I would bet many of the OMP coins will be some of the poorest quality coins around.  I also believe that in time, any single sealed coins will start to show the damage the plastic is likely doing to the coin.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 03:41:34 AM by Obsidian »

Offline fractalfate

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2012, 09:12:11 AM »
Although I'm still not certain in regards to MCCs, I tell you what: I'm definitely going to keep this discussion in OCCFP (original CCF packaging). Brilliant!

Offline Gilmore

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2012, 09:06:21 PM »
This set is a real beauty. The coins without the box, and the box without the coins, do not look nearly as good as they are together. I would leave the set as it is.

As Arif said, grading these coins would make sense if you want to sell them in the short term. But you have to be sure that they can grade 69 or 70 in order to sell them for higher price.

I sold a 1996 silver coin set with the music box a while ago. Even though I was sure that the coins would grade high I had no 'heart' to destroy such set and grade the coins.

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Grading dilemma on on 5 pcs 'invention discovery' set
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 09:32:48 PM »
If you really like a coin or coin set, then why not own 1)  graded and 2) OMP w/ box & coa?  One of each for favorite MCC.................