Author Topic: China and Chinese Numismatics  (Read 1937 times)

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Offline mazinger7000

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 09:18:25 AM »
Bitcoins are restricted in China and I have not found anyone there on this trip who owns any. Most of the time I needed to explain what they are. This is one area where I could see the People's Bank imposing further restrictions. I doubt that China will be a factor in any future growth for Bitcoin, at least for now. Either that, or I just don't know the right people!

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

this is a quote from Elly Zhang's article on coindesk today. I'm assuming it's correct, but i have no personal experience to back that up.
"Relevant for this conversation is the fact that 70% of bitcoin's mining power belongs to China's miners, and the fact is that these entities can easily join forces. Bitcoin Cash, I believe, is a prime example of that." perhaps, as you said, you don't know the right people!

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 11:11:04 AM »
Cheap electricity next to hydro dams in China makes mining bitcoins very profitables.

Getting people to talk about bitcoins in China is like asking a professional in US if they are going to vote for Trump before the election or asking a senior at bingo night what they think about bitcoin, either they don't want to admit owning a product that government and banks are trying to crush out of existence or they have no clue.  Go to Korea where freedom of speech is more protected and you will hear many talk about bitcoins.  I feeling is bitcoin is underground movement in China and talking about it implies gambling, illegal activities and desire of freedom from government hand.

Offline r3globe

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2017, 01:37:45 PM »
Cheap electricity next to hydro dams in China makes mining bitcoins very profitables.

Getting people to talk about bitcoins in China is like asking a professional in US if they are going to vote for Trump before the election or asking a senior at bingo night what they think about bitcoin, either they don't want to admit owning a product that government and banks are trying to crush out of existence or they have no clue.  Go to Korea where freedom of speech is more protected and you will hear many talk about bitcoins.  I feeling is bitcoin is underground movement in China and talking about it implies gambling, illegal activities and desire of freedom from government hand.
+1 wow great insights!

Offline poconopenn

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2017, 05:20:41 PM »
To understand what is happening in Chinese numismatics it might be useful to understand serious, positive developments in China. These changes reach down from the general secretary to every corner of the country, including coin and medal production. In that spirit, the following is from today's front page of the China Daily:

"Xi: Uproot undesirable work styles"

"Fight to continue against hedonism, extravagance and other misconduct"

"Xi Jinping, general secretary of the Communist Party of China Central Committee stressed that the fight against undesirable work styles should not be stopped...The new forms of misconduct are, in their nature, old problems said Xi... "The...work to improve the Party's conduct and work styles should never end."

In other news:

Former Chongqing political official facing corruption investigation

"Sun Zhengcai, the former secretary of Chongqing Municipal Committee of the Communist Party of China, has been placed under investigation on suspicion of accepting bribes...According to the procurator ate, Sun has been placed under "coercive measures," which may include summons by force, bail, residential surveillance, detention and arrest.

The investigation is underway, the procurotate said in a statement released on Monday...he abused power and used his job to gain benefits for others, then accepted their huge bribes in return, either paid in cash or property, the CCDI said. He was found to seek substantial benefits for his relatives' businesses and accepted valuable gifts."

This is intended to offer a background for occasional numismatic-related events. I hope any responses will be confined to coin-related subjects.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

You are quoting of China Daily, a publication owned by Chinese Communist Party. It may not represent the view of ordinary Chinese. 10-20 years from now, we will find out if the anti-corruption activities are real or just political purging of competitive section of the communist party. Majority of younger generation do not care about what is going on with the Government.
 
Coin collecting is one of the longest hobbies in the world and will not be affected by the policy change of the government. During last few years, I did see China Mint issued more commemorative MCC related to the communist party vs. pre-2010 MCC.

Most culture revolution stamps are very valuable. IMO, the current anti-corruption activities inside China is a mini-culture revolution. 

Offline poconopenn

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2017, 05:36:14 PM »
Cheap electricity next to hydro dams in China makes mining bitcoins very profitables.

Getting people to talk about bitcoins in China is like asking a professional in US if they are going to vote for Trump before the election or asking a senior at bingo night what they think about bitcoin, either they don't want to admit owning a product that government and banks are trying to crush out of existence or they have no clue.  Go to Korea where freedom of speech is more protected and you will hear many talk about bitcoins.  I feeling is bitcoin is underground movement in China and talking about it implies gambling, illegal activities and desire of freedom from government hand.

+ 1
Most bitcoin transactions are done in Asia, especially in those countries with corrupted government and business practices, such as China, South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand and Japan, since the transactions are not traceable.
 
Here is an article from New York Times, dated 9/13/2017, about one of the largest Bitcoin farm in the world, located in China. China has not banned the transaction of Bitcoin, but has indefinitely suspended the operation of Exchanges.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/business/bitcoin-mine-china.html


Offline PandaCollector

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2017, 11:22:15 PM »
You are quoting of China Daily, a publication owned by Chinese Communist Party. It may not represent the view of ordinary Chinese. 10-20 years from now, we will find out if the anti-corruption activities are real or just political purging of competitive section of the communist party. Majority of younger generation do not care about what is going on with the Government.


I quoted the China Daily precisely because it is government owned, as are all the official mints. The mints will always, always follow the direction of the Party as reflected by the China Daily. You may be aware of this already. The China Daily can provide insights for the rest of the world to understand events, too.

Some of the numismatically-connected people who rumor suggests may be involved are people I have met. Over time I have grown to believe that, overall, their actions have not been beneficial to collectors and the numismatic community. So the changes that I have heard about so far do not seem arbitrary or misguided. That said, this is an area where little is ever confirmed.

Unfortunately, a majority of younger generation do not care about coin collecting. They hardly even use coins in their daily life any more.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline KeepOnTrying!

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2017, 12:59:51 AM »
I quoted the China Daily precisely because it is government owned, as are all the official mints. The mints will always, always follow the direction of the Party as reflected by the China Daily. You may be aware of this already. The China Daily can provide insights for the rest of the world to understand events, too.

Some of the numismatically-connected people who rumor suggests may be involved are people I have met. Over time I have grown to believe that, overall, their actions have not been beneficial to collectors and the numismatic community. So the changes that I have heard about so far do not seem arbitrary or misguided. That said, this is an area where little is ever confirmed.

Unfortunately, a majority of younger generation do not care about coin collecting. They hardly even use coins in their daily life any more.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

I am not that pessimistic because “collecting” is a human trait; they will eventually come around to it in their own particular way. The only problem is what shape the narcissist baby boomers leave the whole field in, because they have always been resource hungry to the exclusion of others.

But those shiny metals have an age old allure that will eventually attract the young bucks’ currently defocussed gaze.
KeepOnTrying and Never Give Up!
That lion is also after you!

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 03:12:52 AM »
Most bitcoin transactions are done in Asia, especially in those countries with corrupted government and business practices, such as China, South Korea, Indonesia, Thailand and Japan, since the transactions are not traceable...China has not banned the transaction of Bitcoin, but has indefinitely suspended the operation of Exchanges.

Why do you think they have not banned cryptocurrencies? I doubt it is because they are happy that a secret channel exists to bypass their nation's financial regulatory controls. My guess is that they are looking for a method and if and when they find a technical means to enforce a complete ban, they will impose one.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3

Offline poconopenn

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2017, 04:48:32 PM »
Why do you think they have not banned cryptocurrencies? I doubt it is because they are happy that a secret channel exists to bypass their nation's financial regulatory controls. My guess is that they are looking for a method and if and when they find a technical means to enforce a complete ban, they will impose one.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
Bitcoin mining is considered as one of high tech industry which has been the top priority during the last few years for China to be able to transfer from a low margin traditional manufacture industry to a high profit digital products manufacture base. China already has the fast and largest super-computer (overtook IBM last year) and bitcoin mining need high speed super-computers and is a nature extension of this development. In addition, mining of cryptocurrencies has created many high pay jobs.

The suspension of Bitcoin Exchange is the same as the suspension of some of Coins and Stamps Exchange last year, it is for the stability of the financial market due to the fraudulent activities and lack of transparency of the Exchanges.

China may need “free trade” more than other countries in the future, since they want to sell electric cars, airplanes and digital products worldwide. There is no reason to believe that China will restrict the export of collectible items, especially MCC, IMO. The market will be the controlling factor.


Offline poconopenn

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2017, 04:57:56 PM »
Here is website of Mrs. Xi Jinping, first lady of China.
 
Preparation of state banquet at Peoples’ Great Hall.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/0TfvOFxYDBaKDYyGfKcuUg

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 03:49:24 PM »
There is no reason to believe that China will restrict the export of collectible items, especially MCC, IMO. The market will be the controlling factor.



In general I agree 100% with this. CGCI exports are automatic. For others each shipment must be approved. The devil is in the details.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3

Offline PandaCollector

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2018, 05:13:12 PM »
Bitcoin mining is considered as one of high tech industry which has been the top priority during the last few years for China to be able to transfer from a low margin traditional manufacture industry to a high profit digital products manufacture base. China already has the fast and largest super-computer (overtook IBM last year) and bitcoin mining need high speed super-computers and is a nature extension of this development. In addition, mining of cryptocurrencies has created many high pay jobs.

The suspension of Bitcoin Exchange is the same as the suspension of some of Coins and Stamps Exchange last year, it is for the stability of the financial market due to the fraudulent activities and lack of transparency of the Exchanges.

China may need “free trade” more than other countries in the future, since they want to sell electric cars, airplanes and digital products worldwide. There is no reason to believe that China will restrict the export of collectible items, especially MCC, IMO. The market will be the controlling factor.



"China's regulators will reportedly block local investor access to cryptocurrency exchanges anywhere in the world, not just in mainland China. If you're a Chinese gambler in crypto, it will become even harder to buy from your laptop in Shanghai using exchanges in Hong Kong or Singapore." Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/02/05/banks-retailers-china-have-all-turned-on-bitcoin/#185d3fb95caa)

This was predictable – and more. IMO, it is in a different category entirely than the coin exchanges.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Offline KeyDate1/2ozPandas

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Re: China and Chinese Numismatics
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 10:10:43 PM »
Last time China crackdown on bitcoin trading in a major way was in December of 2013 and the price dropped from $1200 to $400 in three weeks.  My target buy prices for bitcoins was in mid $5000 but now with china trading ban mid $3000 looks like better entry point, probably do 50/50 at each entry point.  With 75-85% correction I am sure some US big boys will step in and buy to preserve their investment and we could get a nice bounce back to $9000 quickly.  The key with an asset that really has zero fundamental value is to trade it and have pre-defined entry and exit points, owning these coins for the long term can be costly as I know at least two mcc investors got washed out today with margin calls. 

I think China will continue to mine coins, they will just do it on the down low, so certain government pockets are lined along the way.  As with all things China the government wants a piece of the action if someone is getting rich.