Topic: Good Circulation (NGC News)

[PandaCollector]

"My cell phone rang as I waited to board a flight to Beijing from San Francisco International Airport. “Hey Peter, can you check out what dealers are selling at the show?” It was a coin dealer friend.

“Sure,” I replied, “Anything in particular?”

“I have a lot of cash coins here, but just tell me how it goes over there…" read more at https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6697/



Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

[PandaOrLunar]

Interesting.  A proof and a BU copper 93 panda.

[ccl]

there's also a 1993 5 Yuan Copper Panda Sun-j27c Bank Specimen Coin which sold in May 2016

[PandaOrLunar]

Ok, a bit of google....

1993 2 Pandas 5 Yn Sun-J27a:  MS
1993 2 Pandas 5 Yn Sun-J27b1:  PL
1993 2 Pandas 5 Yn Sun-J27b2:  PR
1993 2 Pandas 5 Yn Sun-J27c Sample:  SP
1993 2 Pandas 5 Yn Sun-J27d Sample:  PR

[poconopenn]

Here are some recent (2018) auction results of 1993 5 Yuan copper panda.

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=2009&skip=1 (BU bank specimen, NGC MS63, RMB 49,350 =US$7,350)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=523&skip=1 (Proof bank specimen, OMP, RMB 150,483=US$22,460)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=972&skip=1 (NGC MS 68RDPL, RMB 4,221=US $630)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=2042&skip=1 (NGC PF 67RDUC, RMB 6,321=US$950)

http://www.coin001.com/hack.php?H_name=bigauction&action=detail&aid=1990&skip=1 (NGC MS68RD, RMB 1,155= US$170)


Please note that the membership of this forum is about 2450, while coin001 has about 126,700. The majority of members in this forum are MCC, especially panda, collectors, while the majority members at coin001 are circulated coin collectors. The significant large collector base vs. other MCC, has supported the valuation of circulated coins in this down market.

[fwang2450]

Another nice article, Peter. I myself moved from Chinese precious metal commemoratives to circulating coins. I still buy precious metal commemoratives once in a while, but most of my purchases in the past few years were circulating coins, those used in real life. It is a lot easier to apply what I learned from the US numismatic market and books to this segment, such as varieties and conditional rarity. It is a lot of fun and financially rewarding.

[pandamonium]

I see lots of bids for graded circ coins.     Even low grades get bids but not high price yet.     Crazy asking prices on occasion too but not many MCC have crazy asking prices.      How long will supply last?.....

[PandaCollector]

Please note that the membership of this forum is about 2450, while coin001 has about 126,700. The majority of members in this forum are MCC, especially panda, collectors, while the majority members at coin001 are circulated coin collectors. The significant large collector base vs. other MCC, has supported the valuation of circulated coins in this down market.

This is kind of an apples and oranges comparison. First off, the Chinese Coin Forum is the only English website I know of that even covers circulating Chinese coins, so its membership includes at least some of the foreign interest in those.

Second, Coin001.com has a substantial full-time staff that provides a variety of useful and valuable services to its members. The Chinese Coin Forum has a few part-time volunteers who monitor the conversations here.

Third, Mr. Sun Keqin deserves enormous credit for developing and promoting the market for circulating coins inside China. When I wrote in the NGC article that I went out to dinner with a group of circulating coin collectors, it was because Mr. Sun invited me along. That was not the only time, either. Go to one of his well-attended lectures at a coin show, or watch his frequent appearances on Chinese TV, and you will better understand his impact.

The only person who came close to filling that role in MCC is gone; Nick Brown. From my perspective, the Modern Chinese Coin market misses his energy, intellect and fervor far more than is commonly recognized. 

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

[fwang2450]

Mr. Sun's impact on the Chinese circulating coins is beyond words. For one thing, coin001.com is paid out of his own pocket. The website is still losing money because there are few ads and commission from coin sales/auctions is extremely low. Mr. Sun has his own business, and so can afford to foot the bill.

I came to MCC too late to feel the influence of Nick. But I don't believe that the overall MCC market could be much different even if he were alive now. The US MCC market is a small section of the total MCC market. A similar leading figure in China would be more instrumental. But people like Huang Ruiyong and Ge Zukang got into controversies, lost their leadership and have not been very active. Yet this is only one of the reasons that the MCC market is low. Generally MCC is tied to and held captive by the bullion prices. The base metal circulating coins, on the other hand, are free from this problem and follow the market cycle of their own.
 

[PandaCollector]

I am sorry that Frank never met Nick, it would have been nice for both of them. I am very glad that Frank is here to share his knowledge with us. As for Nick's potential influence on the MCC market, what is unknowable can only be speculated about. A couple of things that Nick and Mr. Sun share(d) is that both were collectors themselves and neither relied on coins for income.

A larger conversation is the perception that certain coin values are tied to bullion.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

[poconopenn]

Just want to give credit to the owner of this forum, snowball, for his efforts to promote MCC to the collectors worldwide. This forum, started in 2008, has no advisement or commission income to fund the operations.  He did not ask any financial support from members until 2016, for very small donation.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=12527.0 (You need to login to see this thread)

Many members have contributed their knowledge and their discovery in this forum for new varieties which were recognized by grading services companies later. I own at least 80% of the books related to MCC. Unfortunately, none of those authors has ever credit to this forum for the discovery of those varieties in their books.
 
Mr. Sun is the only author who provides the source of the discovery of the varieites in his book. 

[PandaCollector]

Just want to give credit to the owner of this forum, snowball, for his efforts to promote MCC to the collectors worldwide. This forum, started in 2008, has no advisement or commission income to fund the operations.  He did not ask any financial support from members until 2016, for very small donation.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=12527.0 (You need to login to see this thread)

Many members have contributed their knowledge and their discovery in this forum for new varieties which were recognized by grading services companies later. I own at least 80% of the books related to MCC. Unfortunately, none of those authors has ever credit to this forum for the discovery of those varieties in their books.
 
Mr. Sun is the only author who provides the source of the discovery of the varieites in his book. 

The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide 3 acknowledges the owner and sponsor of this forum by name. Panda Halves is credited with first reporting the different versions of the Temple of Heaven railing. I will remember to mention the forum itself in future editions; it is a good idea.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

[poconopenn]

The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer's Guide 3 acknowledges the owner and sponsor of this forum by name. Panda Halves is credited with first reporting the different versions of the Temple of Heaven railing. I will remember to mention the forum itself in future editions; it is a good idea.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

Perhaps, you need to revisit the following thread.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7931.0

Wg was the first member posted side-by-side pictures of 1993 gold panda to show the difference in the shape of railing window (Reply #40, 42, 52, 59 and 66). PCGS confirmed the difference in Reply #78 and NBM posted side-by-side picture of 1 oz. 1992 silver panda in Reply #81. It was the jointed efforts by many members of this forum to discover the difference in the shape of railing window of  gold and silver panda made by Shanghai and Shenyang Mint between 1989-1999.

[PandaCollector]

Perhaps, you need to revisit the following thread.

http://china-mint.info/forum/index.php?topic=7931.0

Wg was the first member posted side-by-side pictures of 1993 gold panda to show the difference in the shape of railing window (Reply #40, 42, 52, 59 and 66). PCGS confirmed the difference in Reply #78 and NBM posted side-by-side picture of 1 oz. 1992 silver panda in Reply #81. It was the jointed efforts by many members of this forum to discover the difference in the shape of railing window of  gold and silver panda made by Shanghai and Shenyang Mint between 1989-1999.

Panda Halves provided me with this information privately for use in my book prior to this thread. I participated in this discussion, so was fully aware of it, but Panda Halves was the first to point this design feature out to me. Funny thing, but around this time PCGS-Asia and I used to have lunch together once a week. He never said anything on the subject before Panda Halves told me. Maybe he knew it earlier? No way to know.

In general, I am not in favor of giving personal credit to things found, like varieties. There is no way to really determine who noticed something first. Most of the varieties in my book I found on my own, but do not mention it. OTOH, things created like photos, stories, etc. should (except for special circumstances) always be attributed. YMMV.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia — Chinese Coin Prices and More
The Gold & Silver Panda Coin Buyer’s Guide 3
www.pandacollector.com

[poconopenn]

Here is a photo of a Shanghai 100 Yuan (left) and a Shenyang 100 Yuan (right). The coins are still in their OMPs, and I left some of the pouch markings so that you can see what those look like. Please note not just the size of the numerals, but also their shapes. Also the size and shapes of the Chinese characters. I'll get some hi-res images of 50 Yuan coins posted ASAP (meaning as soon as I have time). The 1993 50 Yuan and 100 Yuan are among the most difficult to distinguish between the varieties, but it's doable. I'm still positive that the coin at the beginning of this topic is a product of the Shenyang Mint, and a Small date. I have to say that the terms Large Date and Small Date are barely applicable to these. They are just Shanghai (S) and Shenyang (Y) in my mind.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
China Pricepedia
www.pandacollector.com

As quoted above, the comment you posted in the thread, referred in my previous post, IMO, it suggested that you had no knowledge about the shape difference of railing window of gold and silver pandas made by Shanghai and Shenyang Mint during the period 1989-1999, prior to the discussions in the referred thread.

Both your Guide 2 and Guide 3 suggest that the window difference for all pandas prior to 2000. This is not true, it only covers period 1989-1999.