Topic: Two Lovely Pandas (rare) - video & pics.

[barsenault]

Amen Hippanda, but his use of power was/is excessive. He has no right saying and ordering around the way he does.  Sorry.  I don't care how Sr. he is.  What he is doing is simply wrong.  He is on a high horse, coming across like he's the emperor of the CMF.  I may be a newbie, inexperience, wet behind the ears, fresh from the waters, a novice, a beginner, etc...admittedly so (to the person who PM'd me - is that blunt enough???  ).  

However, I'm old enough to recognize excessive use of power when I see it, and he's it.  Period.  I think others see the same, and have essentially expressed the same (if you read between the lines).  I feel I did nothing wrong.  I wasn't being deceptive. I wasn't hiding.  I wasn't playing games.  What else did he accuse me of?  I only make one accussation against him, and that is, 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.'  Done.  

All the best to you Hippanda.  Oh, and yes, for transparency sake, I/we will be coming out with a new website called chinesemedals.com (here's your advance warning Poconopenn).  Thanks again Hippanda, Frank, JC, KOT, Pandamonium, etc...really appreciate your words of encouragement.  Take care all.  

Poconopennn, what about the picture below?  This is the selling price of the Goat Panda. A little excessive to you?  Have you challenged this dealer publicly yet?  If not, why not?  Please do tell. Is he a friend of yours?    Heck, maybe I should sell my other 3 PF70 Panda Goats for 1K a piece, what do you think?  

[Hippanda]

Some here feel Poconopenn's position gives him a good view of the terrain from up on his horse, which is thankfully a bit higher, to share with us here, and it's valuable to us! LOL !  

Discussion and respectful debate on differences in opinion is healthy.  We can all learn a lot from discussion, but not from silence or non-disclosure which is for the benefit of few rather than for the group.

I am thankful to have learned a lot from the recent discussions, the disclosures, and especially as it stays on the high road with facts and opinions.

It certainly has affected my opinions, outlook, and my planned direction of my CC collection moving forward.

[barsenault]

And mine too.  As I said, I learned some good lessons from this exchange.  I will be upfront, from the outset.."I love them, but it's no promise that I won't sell them, call it pumping if you want, but that's not my intent or heart.'  That will be my disclaimer going forward. LOL. 

Thanks all.  Hippanda, I had to respond to you, because I agree.  All the best...now this really is my last post.  I need to get taken off the email notification when someone responds.

[andrewlee10]

I am a collector and reseller of some MCC.

I do not like this bald panda especially the cooper. However, I did bought some for sell. I own 5 pcs PF70 silver which is 30% of the pop in PCGS and NGC. I sold 3 and left 2. I make good margin which price range USD380 - 490. sold few brass and PCGS PF69 range from USD200 -390 too. I do not like it do not means others. you have your own choice of decision making.

As newbie must make decision and DD before buying any CMC/medal. This concept apply to any other western mints coins/medal.

It is not the forum member misguide you if wrong decision making. Not only CMC had rumours and full access information which discussion, disagreement and personal fight are involving. Always seek second or/and third opinion in DD and as many sources as possible.

Please note that I am both collector and reseller. I will post photo and video and lazy to put disclaimer and long clarification for the intention of selling. Please not attack me for my laziness :) 

 

[Tao-Panda]

I'm a Panda animals/coins/medals lover and what is following reflects my humble personal opinion.

I do not find these "2 lovely Panda" medals very nice; they look like very cheap stuff.  
There are so many very very nice Panda coins or medals to buy that I do not understand why some people buy these ugly Pandas for more than 2000 USD.

I have not the same opinion for the 2oz silver Goat Panda  

[Birdman]

There are so many very very nice Panda coins or medals to buy that I do not understand why some people buy these ugly Pandas for more than 2000 USD.

If these were quietly put on eBay, I suspect no one would buy them at such a price. 

If someone aggressively promotes them on multiple fronts, appealing to a buyer's desire to make lots of money, however, you have some hopeful buyers.  And, by the way, you better not think too much or too long, because the prices are rising as we speak, as "smarter" investors are buying them while they are "cheap."  Also, don't ask other people about them, just listen to us, the people who control the supply and pricing or otherwise have a vested interest in having you not discover more about the true long term investment potential of these products.

I've seen too many new collectors get pulled into such a sales pitch, and it end badly for them.  If I had not been a conservative investor by nature who tends to be skeptical, I think I would have fallen for a previous version of this promotional pitch a few years ago.  I'm now a moderator, and I think it is important to play a role in raising awareness, so that people don't get swept into things by people who don't hold their best interests at heart.  I will again take some heat online for saying things, I will be painted in a harsh light in some forums, but if I play a role in helping prevent a person's hard earned money being lured down an unproductive path and into someone else's pocket, I will sleep better at night.

By the way, Barsenault, this isn't targeted directly at you.  My person gut feeling is that you have, in part, been manipulated by others, but I think you are starting to understand the full scope of the strategy of some.  Beware of silver tongued puppet masters.

The words I've typed are solely my opinion, and do not represent those of the other moderators or the owner of this forum.

I'm happy to step down as moderator if people think I am not being sufficiently diplomatic.  I have never been one to hold my tongue when I see something inappropriate going on.

[wg]

If these were quietly put on eBay, I suspect no one would buy them at such a price.

If someone aggressively promotes them on multiple fronts, appealing to a buyer's desire to make lots of money, however, you have some hopeful buyers.  And, by the way, you better not think too much or too long, because the prices are rising as we speak, as "smarter" investors are buying them while they are "cheap."  Also, don't ask other people about them, just listen to us, the people who control the supply and pricing or otherwise have a vested interest in having you not discover more about the true long term investment potential of these products.

I've seen too many new collectors get pulled into such a sales pitch, and it end badly for them.  If I had not been a conservative investor by nature who tends to be skeptical, I think I would have fallen for a previous version of this promotional pitch a few years ago.  I'm now a moderator, and I think it is important to play a role in raising awareness, so that people don't get swept into things by people who don't hold their best interests at heart.  I will again take some heat online for saying things, I will be painted in a harsh light in some forums, but if I play a role in helping prevent a person's hard earned money being lured down an unproductive path and into someone else's pocket, I will sleep better at night.

By the way, Barsenault, this isn't targeted directly at you.  My person gut feeling is that you have, in part, been manipulated by others, but I think you are starting to understand the full scope of the strategy of some.  Beware of silver tongued puppet masters.
( .. )

 
+1

regards

[Tao-Panda]

I completely agree with you, Birdman.
It is comforting to see that there are still people who care about others.

[SANDAC]

Very well said, Birdman!

IMO, Poconopenn's other point is even more important and it bears repeating.  Namely:

Most knowledgeable coin collectors are aware the price manipulation of IPO of newly issued coins by distributors and dealers to maximum their profit, especially for low mintage coin/medal. The fair value of any newly issued low mintage coin/medal will not be reached until at least 6 months after IPO. Any dealer or speculator can corner low mintage coin/medal, such as this one, for less than $50,000. Usually, collector will buy one for his/her collection, but investor/speculator will buy multiple. Based on the evidence presented in barsenault’s posts, IMO, he is an investor/speculator. Unfortunately, he has not done enough DD and listened to advice from those dealers who usually have a hiding agenda.

caveat emptor!

[NBM]

Thank you Birdman. 

Beware of silver tongued puppet masters.

I fear for the new one's future if they are not warned away from the puppet master's grooming.

[dobedo]

+1

regards

+1.1 :)

[mcc168]

If these were quietly put on eBay, I suspect no one would buy them at such a price. 

If someone aggressively promotes them on multiple fronts, appealing to a buyer's desire to make lots of money, however, you have some hopeful buyers.  And, by the way, you better not think too much or too long, because the prices are rising as we speak, as "smarter" investors are buying them while they are "cheap."  Also, don't ask other people about them, just listen to us, the people who control the supply and pricing or otherwise have a vested interest in having you not discover more about the true long term investment potential of these products.

I've seen too many new collectors get pulled into such a sales pitch, and it end badly for them.  If I had not been a conservative investor by nature who tends to be skeptical, I think I would have fallen for a previous version of this promotional pitch a few years ago.  I'm now a moderator, and I think it is important to play a role in raising awareness, so that people don't get swept into things by people who don't hold their best interests at heart.  I will again take some heat online for saying things, I will be painted in a harsh light in some forums, but if I play a role in helping prevent a person's hard earned money being lured down an unproductive path and into someone else's pocket, I will sleep better at night.

By the way, Barsenault, this isn't targeted directly at you.  My person gut feeling is that you have, in part, been manipulated by others, but I think you are starting to understand the full scope of the strategy of some.  Beware of silver tongued puppet masters.

The words I've typed are solely my opinion, and do not represent those of the other moderators or the owner of this forum.

I'm happy to step down as moderator if people think I am not being sufficiently diplomatic.  I have never been one to hold my tongue when I see something inappropriate going on.

Very well said, Birdman!

[Tao-Panda]

Pour ceux qui comprennent le français: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK0VSmBpMjs 

[fwang2450]

Now that Bob mentioned me saying the "mintage trap", I might as well explain it a little further.

Rarity is the top priority with circulating coins, whether it is a pattern, a bank specimen, a trial strike or a survivor of melting/confiscation/aborted production run. Circulating coins are strictly controlled and regulated by the government. They normally have a humongous mintage. Circulating coins with a small mintage are exceptions and as such they are very special.

With medals, often the mintage is determined by the mint or the private group/person commissioning the medal. The mintage can be manipulated to the advantage of the sponsors/commissioners. It can be artificially very small. If we apply the same rules as those for circulating coins and blindly seek rarity with medals, we may fall into the mintage trap.

I am not saying rarity is not important with medals. The Great Wall silver medals are extremely rare and highly sought after. There are some early brass medals mostly from Shanghai Mint which have a tiny surviving mintage due to loss after their release. (Who cared about brass medals with little melting  value?) Their current rarity was not intentional at the time of striking. Before someone decides to fork out a large sum of money for a new medal of a small mintage, beware of the difference between circulating coins and medals. There are tons of such medals of a small mintage out there, and more are on the way. If I see a piedfort version of the Nanjing pandas with an even smaller mintage, I won't be surprised at all. Keeping a perspective on it will save us from falling into the mintage trap.

[andrewlee10]

Hi Frank and others,

What are the good dd, factors in decision making process and approaches to assess the worthiness of investing/buying the medal with low mintage?

I feel the panda goat PF70 is way to high and expansive at ebay. I like it very much and love it. In fact, I hold another 10-15 pcs at this moment. I have hesitant to buy it at current price if I am collectors. It is the same case for Xie which I can source it 30% lower in china than ebay. However, I still not buy it at few month ago before Barsenault post it to forum. I really puzzle of the room of appreciation in term of selling price in future. I wear investor hat during this decision making processes. Anyone has a insight or/and experience about it ? But remember, I treat this as investment rather than collection for this case. Please not attack me due to the sensitiveness of the up and down of this thread and forum. I just need some opinion for this matter as an investor.   

For Information, I did sold around 40 pcs omp and graded panda goat so far. I kept another 10 - 15 pcs at this moment.